You're just being argumentative.
As mentioned, I'll go to Bachelor as part of a larger West Coast road trip a few years later in life when I have more than a week at a time. Same deal with Japan.
Europe 23/24
- Thread starter Sbooker
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As mentioned, I'll go to Bachelor as part of a larger West Coast road trip a few years later in life when I have more than a week at a time. Same deal with Japan.
ChrisC
Well-known member
You're just being argumentative.
As mentioned, I'll go to Bachelor as part of a larger West Coast road trip a few years later in life when I have more than a week at a time. Same deal with Japan.
Sorry, I still do not understand. Portland, OR, is just 6 hrs, and Geneva is 8 hrs. I see Apples to Apples - not Apples to Oranges. It's the same.
I do it all the time and don't combust. Headphones, movies, Internet, emails - I'm fine.
OK. Enough.
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skiandgolfnut
Member
Not sure what the alternative to the ladder looks like in practice but hopefully we will go up and take a look. At least to the direct side of your photos that doesnt look bad. I think we will definitely get two trips in. Meeting at 9 and have all day so I don't see why not. I guess if we get to the top and it looks too sketchy for me will just go over to Chamonix and take a bus back. He offered to do a run from the midstation back to the bottom and then go up and do the VB but I am skeptical about the snow quality skiing down from the midstation.I think you did the best - I did not know you had been to St. Moritz and Zermatt, so it makes sense to try something new.
Would totally do it! The Toula Glacier. There will be no tracks, and the guides will not recommend it unless they want to do it, too! Be incredibly memorable.
Don't think you can ski to town/Courmayeur/Entreves (nor do you want to), and I would negotiate 2 trips up to the Toula Glacier.
I do not like heights - I am slightly uneasy on a balcony. But put me in a harness on a cliff with 2 backups, easy. You bounce down the cliff, push off, not hard.
I love the Vallee Blanche, but you miss some of the steeper other areas skiing from Courmayeur. But you will likely get some of the best powder from Courmayeur to the main route. But short.
Either will be quite good.
See some photos below - not too hard for what the ladders did.
On Sunday, we were going to get a guide and ski the Toula Glacier off of the Skyway Cable Car / Pointe Helbronner Here - however, there was an issue.
Toula Glacier - 2D View
3D View
There are (were?) 2 sets of stairs to descend to get to the Toula Glacier:
So instead of getting a guide and splitting the cost among 4-6 skiers and simply doing stairs, you now have to rappel onto the Toula Glacier and the skier-to-guide ratio can only be 2:1 with a new price of 500 Euros. Yikes! Therefore, we bailed on the Toula Glacier. I might do it someday and add the Marbree Couloir - also accessed by the Skyway Cable Car....when Chamonix/Grand Montets gets its Cable Cars/Funitels back. From FATMAP:
- One to get off the Helbronner cable car top station. New and modern.
- Second set to get on the Toula Glacier. Not so new - and a gap was forming as the glacier receded. The village of Courmayeur finally condemned the Toula stairs in 2019 since they could not guarantee their safety - and finally removed them in 2020.
The ladders which used to access the Toula Glacier are no longer in place. The run can still be accessed via an awkward set of rappels, or by skiing the shoulder of the Aiguille d'Entrêves, or via one of the very steep couloirs beneath the Pointe Helbronner. We have left this route description as it is because the ladders may be replaced one day, and because the lower part of the route description could still be useful to skiers.*
Pics of the now-gone stairs to the Toula Glacier. And a great trail report when the ladder existed Here
Overall, I would return to Courmayeur again since it has easily accessible off-piste, Skyway cable car, good snow preservation in winter, closeby resorts (Chamonix, La Thuile, Aosta Valley), charming village, good food and relatively lower prices (vs. Switzerland/France).
ChrisC
Well-known member
Me: You likely have enough time for one Toula Glacier run and go off the backside into the Vallee Blanche into Chamonix. If you want to do all of it. (I always push for too much). Sure - a bus back - but it's amazing.
And the snow up high has to be quite good - low/medium-weight powder.
I skied the Vallee Blanche a few weeks ago. There is a new gondola to take to a train into Chamonix vs. a 20/30-minute hike and skiing into Chamonix.
Saw Youla/Arp trams seem to be closed. Hopefully, you get one day in the bowl. There can be lines on weekends - but the Italians do not ski the off-piste.
And the snow up high has to be quite good - low/medium-weight powder.
I skied the Vallee Blanche a few weeks ago. There is a new gondola to take to a train into Chamonix vs. a 20/30-minute hike and skiing into Chamonix.
Saw Youla/Arp trams seem to be closed. Hopefully, you get one day in the bowl. There can be lines on weekends - but the Italians do not ski the off-piste.
I agree with ChrisC. If your guide has seen you ski and thinks you can do Toula Glacier, go with his judgment. Recall that our guide saw us ski Pays Desert and decided NOT to take us to Col Pers. I had to rappel in La Grave in 2008 and the guides are in charge, lowering you slowly in a secure harness. One Toula Glacier + one Valle Blanche, which is mellow, relaxing and drop dead gorgeous: sounds like a great day to me.
1) Best time for it is mid to late April, different time frame from his Euro trips.
2) Bachelor is a perfect fit for James terrain wise.
3) With a transfer into the close by Redmond airport, it's viable for a 4-day long weekend trip. With more time, Portland plus a day or two at one of the Hood areas works too.
I agree. I think James may be limited to a couple of one week trips per year, and those are to the Alps for cultural as well as skiing reasons. I push the Oregon scenario for James though because:
1) Best time for it is mid to late April, different time frame from his Euro trips.
2) Bachelor is a perfect fit for James terrain wise.
3) With a transfer into the close by Redmond airport, it's viable for a 4-day long weekend trip. With more time, Portland plus a day or two at one of the Hood areas works too.
skiandgolfnut
Member
Well my cousin is getting the run of a lifetime, I am enjoying a beer at the top of the skyway. They will be back up in a few minutes and we will do the valle Blanche afterwords. The guide wanted to enter the toula glacier by taking the elevator down from the top of the cable car through the rocks and entering a steep colouir by climbing over a fence and putting our skis on in the colouir in very slick steep and exposed condition. I scouted a few others and decided I’d rather let them enjoy themselves and stay back. I am comfortable on steeps in skis but getting my skis on in such a precarious spot is above my tolerance. I watched them ski into the colouir and it looked fantastic. Oh well, not a bad view from up here while I wait. Visibility looks better on the French side. Got some cool photos of them.
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I assume two issues: my limitations (especially bootpacking) due to skiing with a butcher's knife in my leg and Liz having challenges with that cornice. Terrain-wise, the comparatively mellow Pays Desert was fine for Liz and me.
skiandgolfnut
Member
Unbelievable afternoon on the valle blanche. Our guide said it was a 7/10. 10/10 weather, abundant sunshine. 5/10 snow. The stair case down from the top of the skyway was easy as could be and I was glad to avoid the arete on the Cham side I have read about. The top bit was heavy, after a while we settled into a nice enough wind buff that was enjoyable and by the bottom it was soft spring snow as we meandered through the glacier. Got to stop and walk through ice caves and enjoyed a nice long break at the bottom. Train back to chamonix was a bit of a shit show and it seems like it’s 60 and sunny down here but overall nothing to complain about, a bucket list day.
ChrisC
Well-known member
Looks supremely great!
Looks amazing!
The Vallee Blanche will always be a bit mixed - it's almost 10,000 vertical. I would go with the sun any day!!
Uniform conditions - lol!
Eventually, I will get to the Toula Glacier. They skied into it?! Great!
Looks amazing!
The Vallee Blanche will always be a bit mixed - it's almost 10,000 vertical. I would go with the sun any day!!
Uniform conditions - lol!
Eventually, I will get to the Toula Glacier. They skied into it?! Great!
skiandgolfnut
Member
Yes they skied into it. They took the elevator down from helbronner and walked through a tunnel. From there they hopped a fence protecting the observation deck from the top of a colouir before putting their skis on and descending the colouir onto the glacier. They said the snow was slick in the entry, decent in the meat of the colouir, and heavy as shit on the glacier. The warm air from Tuesday really did a number even at a decent altitude .met some Americans that have been in chamonix for the season and they said Monday at courmayeur was the best show of the season, deep and light. as my previous photos showed, the light was flat and consistent cloud covered the Italian side. Contrast that with these. Not a cloud in the sky over in France. You can see the clouds getting trapped.
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ChrisC
Well-known member
I do think Courmayeur is a bit underrated. It's beautiful, has excellent off-piste or heli-skiing, and is nearby to Chamonix or MonteRosa. But it's small.
I think all the food options are visible in the reports.
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skiandgolfnut
Member
Off piste was a bust today. The trams opened but our one run off the back of the Arp cable car was terrible and we wound up with a 30 minute trek out of unskiable cement. Skied on piste the rest of the day. Visibility was good, place wasn’t too crowded, and had a great lunch at Chiecco. It is obvious that the off piste possibilities here are endless but seems like we just kind of had bad luck with the temperatures. Our guide basically said the Genoa low storms typically bring lots of snow but it is often heavy and warm. Good to know for next time. La Thuile tomorrow, probably on piste.
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That was my fate in 2004.
Not my experience in either 2018 or 2023. Fraser has said several times that high rain/snow lines are much less likely from the southern storms than the ones from the Atlantic/Gulf Stream. I noticed from WePowder that the rain/snow line fluctuated and was often higher than usual this time
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Friday 1 March 2024 - The weather in the Alps remains changeable, with further snow forecast this weekend, heaviest in the southwest
A weather front is moving east across the Alps today, which for most regions won’t produce more than a few centimetres of snow here and there. Some central/southern areas (notably between Zermatt/Saas-Fee and the Italian Lakes) will see significant snowfall however. Of the better-known ski areas, the Monte Rosa region is likely to do best, with 50cm+ possible above 1800m by tonight.The rain/snow limit will generally sit between 1200m and 1700m, but perhaps a little lower during the heaviest precipitation.
Predicted snowfall between now and Monday 4 March 2024, with the brightest colours showing the deepest falls, with some southwestern areas seeing up to 1m, notably close to the Swiss/Italian border
Over the weekend a new storm will arrive from the west bringing further significant snow to some southwestern regions. Between Saturday morning and Monday morning, as much as 50-90cm of new snow could fall in areas including Isola 2000, Sestriere, Cervinia, Zermatt, Saas-Fee and the Monte Rosa region. The rest of the southern French Alps, especially resorts close to the Italian border (e.g. Montgenèvre) and as far north as Val d’Isère, will also see significant snow. The northern French Alps (e.g Portes du Soleil, Chamonix) will see less, with perhaps closer to 10cm.
Generally, during this weekend’s storm, the further northeast you are in the Alps the less snow you will see, with very little (if any) in the northern Swiss Alps (e.g. Engelberg) and more generally in Austria.
Snow conditions in the Alps are now best (or, at least, soon will be) in the higher resorts of the southern and southwestern Alps, including Livigno, Monte Rosa, Cervinia, Zermatt, Saas-Fee, Sestriere, Montgenèvre and Isola 2000. Thanks to also catching snow spilling over the Italian border in these types of set-ups, Tignes/Val d’Isere and Val Cenis (among others) can also be added to this list.
More generally, there remain considerable weaknesses at low altitude across the Alps due to a proper base not ever having formed this season, including in Megève, Morzine, Gstaad, Grindelwald and many of the lower Austrian resorts (e.g. St Johann in Tirol). While these resorts are able to offer some reasonable piste-skiing higher up, they have little if any natural base lower down.
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
Looks like the party is on. The west is going off , now Europe. The east was not invited.
A question to you snow gurus relating to my trip to Tignes or Val D’Isere the week starting April 7.
I’d like to do a Snoworks off piste course but it’s mornings only. In a regular April would snow have softened from the overnight freeze by 9am? Or will the instructors likely find winter snow in the high north facing areas in spring?
I’d like the tuition but if it’s not likely they’ll be able to take the group off piste on skiable snow I might be best just doing some guided half days that could include afternoons with ESF.
I’d like to do a Snoworks off piste course but it’s mornings only. In a regular April would snow have softened from the overnight freeze by 9am? Or will the instructors likely find winter snow in the high north facing areas in spring?
I’d like the tuition but if it’s not likely they’ll be able to take the group off piste on skiable snow I might be best just doing some guided half days that could include afternoons with ESF.
Yes, or on sunny days they can hit east or south facing that softens first. Guiding from three organizations we have used in Val d'Isere were all 9AM-1PM. The 2018 trip was in April but we had lot of powder as you know. With powder in April it is essential get on it as fast as you can.
skiandgolfnut
Member
La Thuile delivered today. Everything previously discussed in TR’s was spot on. Easy drive from Courmayeur, empty on a Saturday, easy parking. On arrival at the top of the base gondola I was immediately awed by the scale of the area and the scenery. Courmayeur is beautiful in its own right but the sheer size, especially on a blue bird morning, of LT was a very pleasant surprise. I had no expectations of good off piste today given my last few days but our guide suggested we immediately head to the Moulins area on the French side. Chris and Tony’s TRs both mentioned this area and for the first time all trip we finally had some great skiing. Skiers left from the top of 2 chairs was winter snow at the top and as we progressed further and further left and into the sun it was smooth corn for what seemed like endless vertical. Not wanting to venture elsewhere given we finally found something worthwhile, we did 4 or 5 variations of this run before the clouds moved in and the light became flat. It was noticeably colder at LT and it was obvious that whatever humidity/heat had nuked the snow at Courmayeur didn’t do the same here. I wish I heeded some on here’s advice to spend a second day at LT as opposed to Courmayeur but live and you learn. All in all, I would call the 5 days a success. A picture perfect day on the Vallee Blanche, a great day today at LT, and 2.5 mixed days at Courmayeur. Certainly worse skiing wise and weather wise than my previous trips but no travel difficulties, easy logistics, and some of the best food I’ve ever had. For a short trip, I echo Chris in thinking Courmayeur as a base offers much of what I love about skiing in Europe in an easily accessed compact setting. Thank you to all on here for the suggestions.
Our two dinners in Courmayeur were awesome. It is an impressive base. Liz is always looking to include some Italy time on these trips. Skiing wise the big attractions are off piste, and that's very sensitive to immediate conditions. I was surprised ChrisC did so well with conditions in 2023 because he was there a full sunny week after the Retour d'Est storm we enjoyed in Via Lattea.
Passing through the north side of La Thuile on the way to France, what were the snow conditions there?
skiandgolfnut
Member
Looking at a trail map difficult for me to remember. We took the Chaz dura chair up from Les souches. I wanted to ski the many long inviting pistes from there given I had no expectation of off piste. But the guide really wanted to make his way right away to Mont valaison so we immediately skid what seemed like a piste down the north face down to a quite uncomfortable triple chair with a plastic bench. One of the cheapest least comfortable lifts I’ve come access. The piste down to that lift I assume was north facing and was excellent snow for about 75% of the run before turning icy. From the top of that lift we skid a piste down all the way to moulins in La rosiere, not sure the exposure but it was pretty hard pack and unenjoyable. The guide had tried to convince me to traverse the skiers left face of valaison over some cliffs and then hike up over the ridge to ski some north facing steeps. as mentioned earlier I can get skiddish in situations like that so I scoped it but declined. After the two crazy long tow ropes out of France, we skid several laps on what seemed like the north facing San Bernardo piccolo bubble lift which was down in a valley with some charming restaurants and lots of kite skiers having their go of it. Snow quality was good, light was flat. It was from the top of that lift that we made our way all the way back to La thuille base, a lengthy but mellow enjoyable home run.
The difference in on mountain dining between La Rosiere and La thuille was stark and confirmed what I’ve read about on mountain dining in France. Basically a self service buffet soup was the best I could find. At this point, as excited I am by future trips to the French alps from a ski perspective, the Italian and Swiss lunches would be sorely missed.
The difference in on mountain dining between La Rosiere and La thuille was stark and confirmed what I’ve read about on mountain dining in France. Basically a self service buffet soup was the best I could find. At this point, as excited I am by future trips to the French alps from a ski perspective, the Italian and Swiss lunches would be sorely missed.