Europe 23/24

Ok we are going to go. Either leave tomorrow night or Monday night still have not decided. I think we are ruling out the Dolomites. For 4.5 days of skiing it’s just too long a drive from Milan. I think a few weeks ago conditions looked materially worse everywhere else so we felt like we needed to go there. I think we can stick within 2/3 hours of the airport and have a great trip especially with all this new snow. Off the top of my head Courmayeur seems like a logical choice. Maybe Andermatt. Monta Rosa maybe. Suppose could do chamonix but it’s still French half term for one of the zones. Courmayeur seems to have the cheapest hotels, easiest drive from Milan. Also seems to have some tree lined skiing which could be helpful if visibility is poor on a couple of the days. Our preference is to just base out of one hotel and not overcomplicate this. Maybe drive to a different resort one of the days.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
What about the Milky Way/Montgenèvre with its door-to-door (U.S.-style) highway driving?
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Hadn’t given it much thought but if I remember correctly train access is pretty decent to that area from the airport. Might be preferred to renting if it is snowing. Powderhounds writes highly of the area.
 
skiandgolfnut said:
Hadn’t given it much thought but if I remember correctly train access is pretty decent to that area from the airport. Might be preferred to renting if it is snowing. Powderhounds writes highly of the area.
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Check out the reports that @Tony Crocker posted last year. The only thing I know about popular Italian resorts is to go there exclusively on weekdays.
 
Once again my SoCal prejudice says stick with the car.

In the Via Lattea complex, it's not obvious but the summit of Mt. Fratieve is the intersection point among the Sestriere, Sauze d'Oulx and Sansicario ski areas.
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Mt. Fratieve is most quickly accessed by the gondola out of Sestriere. We were staying in Cesana Torinese and drove up to Sestriere for the days skiing there and Sauze d'Oulx. And wherever you stay, you'll want the car to drive to Montgenevre as it would take a long time to get there by lifts.

If based in Courmayeur, you have to balance the tradeoff between daily commuting and relocating the lodging base. The commuting can be much longer than what I list with fresh snow as all of those access roads are narrow with lots of switchbacks.

Courmayeur is compact on piste and can easily be covered in a day as Liz and I did on Feb. 1 and sbooker on a sunny Feb. 3. Chris documented some very impressive off-piste last year. The caveat is that those are way off piste lines to the valley floor, which means you need a guide at least the first time and the lower elevations can be a slog if coverage or snow surfaces aren't good. The commute areas I list below are all much larger than Courmayeur.

La Thuile is the short commute from Courmayeur, 25 minutes, and we had a great day there Feb. 2.

Cervinia is 75 minutes from Courmayeur, mostly intermediate pitch with not much competition on the two stellar powder days Liz and I skied there in 2014 and 2018.

Champoluc is 90 minutes from Courmayeur. That's the west end of the Monterosa but the other two valleys are far longer drives and not realistic. Champoluc has the most on piste skiing. The best off piste is off the ridge dividing Grosseney from Alagna. If you want to ski some of that, you need to be at Champoluc at opening bell.
 
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Realistically, if we chose Courmayeur, based on only skiing 4.5 days, I would say we would probably only do La Thuile. We would probably hire a guide at Courmayeur for 2 of the days. Chris trip report last year was very promising. It seems to pack a lot of the alps experience into a well wrapped albeit smaller package. Food, lodging, distance from mxp etc, it checks a lot of boxes. Doesn’t seem like it did quite as well with the new snow at St Moritz but I am sure it is much improved since you were there a few weeks ago with more snow on the way in the next three days.
 
I would be extremely skeptical of the off piste to the valley floor at Courmayeur in view of the past 2 months warm weather. My off piste run there in 2004 was a 5,500 vertical ordeal. Don't commit to more than one lift guided day and see how it goes that day.

ChrisC also has done heli days in Courmayeur. That might be a better bet for off piste as they can keep you at much higher altitudes. If you're not willing to pay for that, I'd recommend a commute to Cervinia, where base elevation is 2,050 meters and the lifts go up to 3,460 at Plateau Rosa.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
I would be extremely skeptical of the off piste to the valley floor at Courmayeur in view of the past 2 months warm weather. My off piste run there in 2004 was a 5,500 vertical ordeal. Don't commit to more than one lift guided day and see how it goes that day.

ChrisC also has done heli days in Courmayeur. That might be a better bet for off piste as they can keep you at much higher altitudes. If you're not willing to pay for that, I'd recommend a commute to Cervinia, where base elevation is 2,050 meters and the lifts go up to 3,460 at Plateau Rosa.
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Wouldn’t be just as easy to go through the tunnel and ski north facing Grands at Cham?
 
Tony Crocker said:
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If based in Courmayeur, you have to balance the tradeoff between daily commuting and relocating the lodging base. The commuting can be much longer than what I list with fresh snow as all of those access roads are narrow with lots of switchbacks.
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I would be a bit careful commuting….

Looks like it will be a Retour d'est storm (translated "return from the east" in French) ….. that can produce some of the most intense snowstorms in the southwest Alps.

Zermatt, Saas Fee, Monterosa will get nailed …. With Val d’Isere, La Thuile and Courmayeur doing quite well.

Dolomites and St Moritz might just get a bit more out of the system. Assume links to Zermatt-Cervinia will go down. Possibly between Monterosa resorts. Champoluc has trees …. If you can get there.


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Sbooker said:
Wouldn’t be just as easy to go through the tunnel and ski north facing Grands at Cham?
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The tunnel to Chamonix might be a better bet. Les Grands Montets …. It’s just so sad without the tram. Now it’s just 2 - but great upper mountain lifts - and 2 helper lifts.

If you have good snow I really like the bowls of Brevent- Flegere.
 
skiandgolfnut said:
We would probably hire a guide at Courmayeur for 2 of the days. Chris trip report last year was very promising. It seems to pack a lot of the alps experience into a well wrapped albeit smaller package. Food, lodging, distance from mxp etc, it checks a lot of boxes.
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Agree with Tony - just one guided day. You could even make it a half.

The east facing off piste while good at altitude will be horrendous in its run outs. Lots of crap in the stream bed.

North-facing bowls into the Vesses Couloir into Val Veny will likely will be good. Can be accessed from Youla or ARP Cable Cars. However, there is a creek at the bottom to cross. A bit more complicated with low snow. The traverse out is a bit long.

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Look for a possible 3-run heli ski package from Heliski Courmayeur. You will get 10k+ vertical (5k Mt Blanc massif run south-facing , 3k+ east facing run, 2.5-3k north-facing run similar to Val Veny off-piste.) See what they have available. You need their help finding 2 more skiers to split cost 4 ways. (Some of the most reasonably priced heli skiing left …and you can cherry pick dates most of the time). But new snow lingers in that valley - it’s tight so less sun. Be more like this day:
Heli Courmayeur Jan 2018

La Thuile would be a great powder mountain- likely the Italian side - north - or its east facing expanse with that much snow.

Enjoy!
 
I reached out to that Heli outfit to see if they have any openings this week. Would definitely consider that if the weather cooperates. First day skiing will be Wednesday. Plenty of rooms available in Courmayeur so not going to book any lodging yet. Will leave options open in case weather looks materially better somewhere else.
 
Auron and Isola 2000 are east as well as south of Serre Chevalier, Vars/Risoul, etc. WePowder shows Auron and Isola getting snow from the south and southwest but not west or northwest. WePowder shows Isola 2000 but not Auron getting snow from the east and southeast. From WePowder's commentary and elsewhere, the maritime Alps are probably on the order of California in terms of getting most of their snow in big dumps with extended dry spells in between. I strongly suspect that applies to the Pyrenees as well.
 
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I was able to get a flight arriving early to geneva so should be able to get some turns in tomorrow. I have spoken with the heli company and the mountain guide association in Courmayeur and at the moment the avalanche danger level is at 4. They received 40 cm yesterday on top of what was received late last week. So I cant say off piste looks super promising. But there is a lot of snow and the pistes should be good. Hopefully we get some decent visibility.
 
skiandgolfnut said:
I cant say off piste looks super promising. But there is a lot of snow and the pistes should be good.
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I've never been to Courmayeur but with 2+ feet of recent precip, you should be able to take advantage of the low powder competition and find fresh snow without extensive reconnaissance missions. You've seen our dozens of mentions that the Alps ain't trampled-under-foot SLC in that department.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
I've never been to Courmayeur but with 2+ feet of recent precip, you should be able to take advantage of the low powder competition and find fresh snow without extensive reconnaissance missions. You've seen our dozens of mentions that the Alps ain't trampled-under-foot SLC in that department.
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For sure. And I know there is a mix of opinions on this board on the danger or lack there of off piste routes than can be easily scouted etc in terms of how safe it is or isnt to be cavalier with. level 4 seems high. and ive got 2 young kids so maybe im a bit too cautious. my hope is that maybe if the 4k descent off piste routes or big couloirs arent an option that the piste adjacent off piste easy powder is easily available. defintiely has been plenty of snow.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
you should be able to take advantage of the low powder competition and find fresh snow without extensive reconnaissance missions.
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That scenario is far better at La Thuile than Courmayeur. Courmayeur is very compact aside from those far outside boundary guided routes ChrisC skied. La Thuile has expansive areas between the pistes, especially on the north side. The upper chairs at La Rosiere are good too, though they face south so you would want to get at them early on a sunny day.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
That scenario is far better at La Thuile than Courmayeur. Courmayeur is very compact aside from those far outside boundary guided routes ChrisC skied. La Thuile has expansive areas between the pistes, especially on the north side. The upper chairs at La Rosiere are good too, though they face south so you would want to get at them early on a sunny day.
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We booked one guided day at La thuile on Friday and one guided day at courmayeur on Thursday.
 
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