Get ready for a Gore/North Creek interconnect

[rfarren]

To travel 5 hours plus to hit stowe and the like isn't worth it...

You can do Stowe in 5+ hrs from NYC? Impressive. I always allowed about that when I lived in Wallingford, CT (just south of the Hutch/Merritt Parkway & I-91 merge).

Well 5+ is really an approximation. I can get to Burlington in about 5 hours taking 87 then crossing into vermont just south of lake george. The hutch is only about 20 minutes north of my parents house on the UWS. That being said. Gore is the best option in less than 4 hours from NYC. That is a distance I'm willing to go.

 

[Marc_C]

Well 5+ is really an approximation. I can get to Burlington in about 5 hours taking 87 then crossing into vermont just south of lake george.

That explains it. Stowe Mtn Resort is about an hour from Burlington.

 

[skimore]

No offense intended, but I can't see why someone of rfarren's skill set (Little Chute???) would want to tie himself to a single second-tier eastern ski area. It's an apples-and-oranges comparison to Harvey44's situation with young children. rfarren is single and can afford to go to Rome every year. Flexibility should be a key part of his equation for eastern skiing. Even more so if he now has access to a car.

Tony, I can get to Rome every year because I go during the summer. I teach in the winter. Every trip I take in the winter eats into my income for the whole year. Skiing is a passion that can cost me a lot more than a few pizzas and bottles of wine. Flexibility is something I can't really afford either. Gore is the best mountain within 3.5 hours of NYC. To travel 5 hours plus to hit stowe and the like isn't worth it (especially considering that Alta is a paltry 7 hours away). Whereas a season pass to 1 mountain that is pretty decent is, at least in terms of cost and time.

Why the unwillingness to drive an extra couple hours for far superior skiing and conditions?
Flexibility could be cheaper. Buying a season pass and renting a place at Gore to ski every weekend when 2/3's or more would be subpar? $800 for season pass to Gore. If you skied every weekend at Gore I doubt you would get 10 quality powder days in. Skip the mediocre weekends and go to VT when it snows. You can get 2 day lift tix at Stowe $120.

You would have one weekend the 20th in Dec. Maybe one other Sat the 13th with 6" that came friday the 12th
Possibly one in Jan with 6" Sunday the 11
Possibly one weekend of Feb 21due to 6" on 19th, but there was rain mixed in and it wasn't really powder. I was there and we bailed for NVT.
March-0
April-0

 

[Tony Crocker]

skimore has it exactly right. And if you're flexible you can still hit Gore on that Dec. 20 weekend when it had more snow than VT.

Use your brain each weekend and try to make the right decision. Like those of us out here who hit Mt. Waterman Feb. 14 because it was closed midweek while Baldy likely got more tracked out. Or Bobby D, who skis Snowbasin when storm totals are similar in order to have less competition than in LCC.

Since conditions are so much less consistent in the East, I have to believe flexibility yields even more improvement in ski conditions than in the West. rfarren is far from alone in not having much flexibility in time. But giving up flexibility in ski areas if you're based in NYC is a recipe for mediocrity. Unless you're buying plane tickets to SLC.

 

[rfarren]

Since conditions are so much less consistent in the East, I have to believe flexibility yields even more improvement in ski conditions than in the West. rfarren is far from alone in not having much flexibility in time. But giving up flexibility in ski areas if you're based in NYC is a recipe for mediocrity. Unless you're buying plane tickets to SLC.

It's a huge financial flexibility that one must have... including time. Like I said prior, if I'm going 5+ hours I'm going to Utah, especially when you consider the lift ticket prices vs. what you get at stowe etc compared to Utah. However, most weekends I can't afford to fly out to Utah. Whereas a season pass can be had relatively inexpensively at gore. It's easy to get to compared to vt, and it's better than the catskills. I live in NYC, northern vt is a haul. It is easier for me to go to Utah than it is to go to Jay, and frankly not much more expensive. Gore is a fine mountain, with interesting terrain, skiable trees, and has more consistent snow conditions than whiteface.

Use your brain each weekend and try to make the right decision. Like those of us out here who hit Mt. Waterman Feb. 14 because it was closed midweek while Baldy likely got more tracked out. Or Bobby D, who skis Snowbasin when storm totals are similar in order to have less competition than in LCC.

Those are examples of people who live within an hour of the mountains they are skiing. Your suggestions would make better sense for someone who could wake up at 5:30 drive 2 hours and get to where they wanted to go. I on the other hand work until 7 on fridays and wouldn't be on the road until 8. 3 1/2 hours is all I would want to drive. After that drive I won't want to stay in a hotel.

You should realize too that it's not easy getting to the resorts of NoVt from NY state. Lake Champlain can be a b*tch like that.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Whereas a season pass can be had relatively inexpensively at gore.

skimore says $800. That's at least 2 of your flights to SLC. Breakeven is ~14 days vs. 2 day price. And when the Mammoth MVP is $576, it doesn't strike me as that cheap.

I hear the complaints about NYC-Vermont drive times. And the better the snow is, the worse those drives will be. That's why inflexible NYC skiers of rfarren abilities should be skiing more West than East.

 

[Geoff]

Whereas a season pass can be had relatively inexpensively at gore.

skimore says $800. That's at least 2 of your flights to SLC. Breakeven is ~14 days vs. 2 day price. And when the Mammoth MVP is $576, it doesn't strike me as that cheap.

I hear the complaints about NYC-Vermont drive times. And the better the snow is, the worse those drives will be. That's why inflexible NYC skiers of rfarren abilities should be skiing more West than East.

I have a crap load o' metro-NYC friends who ski KMart each and every weekend. Those of us who have adopted a lifestyle where we ski every weekend look at Tony Crocker's "I won't go if it's not *cough* quality *cough*" shtick and shrug. Very few of my friends are interested in venturing farther north in Vermont. When you do it every weekend, the difference between 4 to 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 to 6 hours of driving each way is a deal breaker. From all the extra skier visits, the surface isn't as good midwinter but you get the snowmaking to have more terrain open early and way more corn snow cover late.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

No opinion from Harvey?

He's the poster boy of someone who's committed to one and only one mountain (Gore).

 

[Harvey]

I figured you guys were sick of this story by now.

No restrictions Gore/WF passes for next year are $690. We just bought two.

Mapquest gives 7 hours 15 mins for our place to Stowe. 4 hours 45 mins to Gore. I bet I could hit that 7:15 if I was solo. With a small child, I'd guess we are talking 8:30.

Can someone estimate what it would cost me to ski 35 days a year at Stowe? I have no idea. 2 years ago I figured our cost for - passes, gas/tolls, plowing, utilities, mortgage and taxes was $6000. This also covered a weeklong vacation in September. Let's say as Skimore suggest that I trade 30 mediocre days at Gore for 10 excellent days at Stowe. How much would that be? I don't know.

But truth is....our decision to buy our property was not based on lift service skiing. We looked at map of the Northeast and looked for the big green patches. Maine had a lot, but we just thought it was too far away. We went for the Adks instead. Having that much undeveloped land makes it a mental oasis for us.

When we bought our land I had only skied a few days of lift service in my life. It's right next to 55k of groomed cross country trails that connect us to 120,000 acres of backcountry in the Siamese. Proximity to trout, hiking, camping, skiing, rafting was what it was all about. We considered Gore, but more in terms of property value. It's just a few mins away.

We started lift service skiing more when we had a baby...it's got built in daycare.

Our land hasn't been a bad investment. $10 for land that is probably worth $150 now, undeveloped. Not that I would ever sell it.

My wife goes with me on the trip about half the time. It's the drive she doesn't like. If our place was in Stowe she'd probably only go once a year. If you take separate vacations all the time - it might not be the best thing for your relationship.

James is probably a good comparison to me..."older," one child, some financial responsibility. James how often do you ski in Northern Vt? Why do you ski at Bellayre? I'd bet distance has something to do with it.

There's no question that if we can work out moving up there in "retirement." We'd use it as a base to ski farther north in Vt and Canada.

It works for us.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

At 1:45 from my house, Belleayre is my "home" mountain, but it's not comparable to owning a house/cabin, having a season pass, and skiing only that mountain. Your rationale for the ADKs makes perfect sense to me, and it has obvious + and -. Six years ago, my wife and I "ran the numbers" of doing something similar. We were talking about getting a place in the Eastern Townships, both for skiing/mtb and cultural reasons. Life happened (kid, job change, bought a house) and that idea was tabled.

Like most people here, the part that doesn't appeal to me is being chained to one hill due to economics (and you can see from my destination trips that I like to sample different ski areas instead of parking myself at one mountain), but there are worse places than Gore and since WF is included in your pass, I'd certainly take advantage of that when conditions are right. Sucks that Hickory isn't in operation.. that would be a nice yin/yang.

 

[jasoncapecod]

This isn't a Gore vs Vermont thread. I love VT , but it"s just a more difficult trip from the NY metro area. Gore and Whiteface are basically right off the NY State Thruway. Put the cruise on 75 and take a nap and your there . You also get a full day of skiing in on Sunday because of the easy ride home. If you have ever left Stowe after skiing a full day Sunday and drove back to NYC. You know it ain't pleasant..

 

[skimore]

Traveling weather really doesn't come into play until your inside a hour of those places

 

[Marc_C]

Traveling weather really doesn't come into play until your inside a hour of those places

Living in central CT for 22 years and skiing VT for 18 of them, I totally disagree.

 

[skimore]

Traveling weather really doesn't come into play until your inside a hour of those places

Living in central CT for 22 years and skiing VT for 18 of them, I totally disagree.

I'm talking about the weather that routinely hits NVT and not so much elswhere. I have to believe there is a difference traveling 91 versus 87. In my 20 yrs of going using 87 it's never been a big deal. But if traveling weather is that bad it's because everyone is getting slammed and there may not be a need to go all the way to NVT.

 

[Geoff]

Traveling weather really doesn't come into play until your inside a hour of those places

Living in central CT for 22 years and skiing VT for 18 of them, I totally disagree.

+1 The same is true coming from metro-Boston. I hear the New Yorkers complain about drives where it takes 3 hours to get 60 miles north of the City any time there's more than a dusting on the road. The masses in the flatlands don't have snow tires and have no snow driving skills. The driving conditions are usually better once you get within an hour of "those places" since more people have the right tires and the snow driving skills. "Those places" are also much more attuned to snow removal, sand, and salt since they get more frequent snow and those tourists are their lifeblood.

I'd also add that you never really know when you're going to hit a good powder day. What you see on the ground at 8AM rarely matches the weather forecast the day before. If you are driving up from NYC on short notice, you'll opt out of many of the good dumps because the weatherman got it wrong and you'll waste vacation time on storms that fizzle out. I had days last winter where I looked out my window at 8:30 AM 2 miles from the parking lot, saw rain or a dusting, and said, "What the hell. I'll go take a run or two" and discovered that there was a foot of new snow on the upper mountain.

You pretty much have to live close enough and be flexible enough that you can drop everything and go skiing when your cell phone rings at 9:00 with that "get up here" call.

 

[Geoff]

I'm talking about the weather that routinely hits NVT and not so much elswhere. I have to believe there is a difference traveling 91 versus 87. In my 20 yrs of going using 87 it's never been a big deal. But if traveling weather is that bad it's because everyone is getting slammed and there may not be a need to go all the way to NVT.

Not really. Orographic lift is a local phenomenon. The Greens from KMart northwards usually get much more snow from storms than elsewhere. The drive up 87 in 3" of snow can really suck with morons with summer tires doing automobile pinball. Your option is 4" at Huntah or 12" at Sugarbush. What's the right choice?

 

[Marc_C]

Traveling weather really doesn't come into play until your inside a hour of those places

Living in central CT for 22 years and skiing VT for 18 of them, I totally disagree.

I'm talking about the weather that routinely hits NVT and not so much elswhere. I have to believe there is a difference traveling 91 versus 87. In my 20 yrs of going using 87 it's never been a big deal. But if traveling weather is that bad it's because everyone is getting slammed and there may not be a need to go all the way to NVT.

Have you never heard of situations where the rain/snow line is somewhere in southern VT? I can't begin to count the number of times I've crossed MA in freezing rain at 30 mph (or sitting for an hour at 0mph while a multi-vehicle accident is cleaned up) to be followed by greasy slush up to White River Jct. On more than one occasion an emergency motel room was needed simply because the roads were so horrific. I have friends in Morristown NJ who are in a ski club with a house at MRG and they have literally a hundred stories of that trip taking over 8 hrs and white knuckle the whole way. BTW, in my time in the Northeast I've found that NY uses a *lot* more sand and salt than MA or VT on the interstates.

 

[Harvey]

.. situations where the rain/snow line is somewhere in southern VT...

The graphic above is from a blog post I made last December after yet another trip through the transition zone. To me it's classic...if it's snowing bigtime at Gore, it means Atlantic (or Gulf) moisture is involved, so there's warm air nearby and some kind of slop to drive through.

For skimore - coming from western NY... he probably doesn't drive in as much sleet as I do coming from NJ.

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2008/12/wh ... asing.html

 

[skimore]

Have you never heard of situations where the rain/snow line is somewhere in southern VT?

Yes, but there are numerous times it's doing nothing at all in SVT and snowing in the northern half and travel isn't affected until near the mountains

 

[Admin]

OK, we're officially off-topic.

Don't worry about someone will probably take care of that. :mrgreen:

Side topic has been split to "Driving to ski East vs. flying to ski West":
http://firsttracksonline.com/boards/vie ... f=2&t=8017