Get ready for a Gore/North Creek interconnect

[Tony Crocker]

The stories above confirm all of my speculation about how difficult it is for easterners in the metro areas to nail the NVT powder days. The JSpin, powderfreak TR's are great, but they are about as relevant to a NYC skier as admin's powder days are to me. I can drive to SLC in 10-11 hours of cruise control. With fresh snow, NYC to Stowe is probably rather similar in time and much more nerve wracking.

 

[rfarren]

The stories above confirm all of my speculation about how difficult it is for easterners in the metro areas to nail the NVT powder days. The JSpin, powderfreak TR's are great, but they are about as relevant to a NYC skier as admin's powder days are to me. I can drive to SLC in 10-11 hours of cruise control. With fresh snow, NYC to Stowe is probably rather similar in time and much more nerve wracking.

11 hours to stowe is a reach. The only time it has ever taken me more than 5 hours to get back from Whiteface was when I got caught in an ice-storm. By and large 87 has great snow plows. They do a great job of keeping that road clear. What makes vermont hard to get to is that most the of the roads are windy and small, with snow... just annoying. However, I actually like the drive from lake george to burlington, you go through some really nice towns.

BTW the other reason for me to do gore is that it comes with wf and I normally hit wf for at least 6 days a year.

 

[Admin]

Don't know if y'all saw this story published over the weekend:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/News/2 ... -Mountain/

 

[Harvey]

Thanks Admin.

The big mystery lies in this:

"Guests can expect more convenient access to Burnt Ridge for the upcoming winter, including a new expansion of the "Cirque Glades" all the way to the base of the Burnt Ridge Quad."

No one seems to be willing to say what that means. Expansion of Cirque Glades is very cool and technically that will improve access to the BRQ.

There is hope that there could be an easier way to get TO the BRQ from the main mountain. The word "including" makes it seem like there is more planned. Some work done to get from the worm hole on twister, directly to the bottom of BRQ would be great.

 

[J.Spin]

This isn't a Gore vs Vermont thread.

I'm hearing some interesting comments about Gore in this thread, so this seems like a good place to get some clarification. I saw Tony describe it is some sort of second tier mountain in an earlier post and I'm wondering why. It looks big, with 2000+ vertical feet, doesn't appear overly crowded, and seems to have awesome terrain based on the pictures I see posted here - like some from Sharon below. So what's the catch? Based on what their website says, Gore receives only 150" of snow a season, which is less than half of what some of the Northern Vermont resorts receive. I know that the Adirondacks don't get the snow that the Greens do, but at 150 inches, how would anything off piste even be covered to produce the awesome days that I frequently see on this board? I have been to Whiteface, and based on that experience and the reports from Harvey, Jimski, Sharon, Powderfreak, etc. Gore sounds much better in many regards (snowfall, glades, weather, atmosphere, etc.). I really want to get over there and check it out. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want Gore as their home mountain. If I lived right at Gore or had that as my easiest access, I don't think I'd worry about heading across the lake to get to Northern Vermont all that often. Gore sounds like an undiscovered gem of a resort that many people don't know about, and it looks like some nice improvements are on the way. So what's not to like?

-J

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Gore sounds like an undiscovered gem of a resort that many people don't know about, and it looks like some nice improvements are on the way. So what's not to like?

I don't think the discussion here and in the other "drive/fly" thread is so much about whether Gore is a good mountain or not. Tony is beating his drum again about how people living downstate would be better served by flying west instead of driving north.

No offense intended, but I can't see why someone of rfarren's skill set (Little Chute???) would want to tie himself to a single second-tier eastern ski area. rfarren is single and can afford to go to Rome every year. Flexibility should be a key part of his equation for eastern skiing. Even more so if he now has access to a car.

I and others have explained why it isn't quite that simple.

 

[J.Spin]

I don't think the discussion here and in the other "drive/fly" thread is so much about whether Gore is a good mountain or not. Tony is beating his drum again about how people living downstate would be better served by flying west instead of driving north.

I haven't looked into that other thread recently, but the bulk of the discussion in this thread seems to be comparing drive times (Gore, Northern Vermont, Southern Vermont, etc.) vs., quality of skiing, with very little emphasis on air travel. For those that have potential lodging/notably shorter drives to Gore vs. Northern Vermont, I was trying to get a sense of whether there is even much of a difference in the skiing to make the extra driving worth it. Gore looks like a great mountain from what I see here, so I'm wondering why people are putting such emphasis on other options.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The trips reports I read here from Gore are generally favorable; it would be a place I'd like to try if I were in the region. That's a different question from locking yourself into a single area of ~400 acres for an entire season or more. Variety junkies like myself or Patrick would get restless/bored. Unless it had Alta-level powder.

And from JSpin's perspective the answer to his question is easy. Gore probably gets ~60% of the snow that Bolton does. That means the number of days with 6+ inches is very small. So not up to his standards in that department.

For the NYC skiers, they are too far away to score New England powder except on rare occasions unless they have icelantic-like flexibility. So it comes down to one of those quantity vs. quality debates (numbers may not be exactly right but presumably illustrative): Which is better, a 30-day season, all at second tier eastern areas like Gore, or a 20-day season with half the days in the West?

 

[jasoncapecod]

Which is better, a 30-day season, all at second tier eastern areas like Gore, or a 20-day season with half the days in the West?

No contest,30 days at Gore.. With that philosophy , i would be working or sitting at home for 10 days.. who say's i need powder to have a quality day. i'm sorry you have such a narrow view of quality skiing..

 

[Tony Crocker]

who say's i need a powder to have a quality day.

There's no difference in terrain quality? Give me a break. I guess I should get a season pass at Mt. High or Big Bear and ski manmade groomers 60 days a year instead of going to Mammoth, SLC etc.

This is a very amusing discussion in view of all the I get from admin because he says I value quantity more than quality.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

My seasons are generally 25-30 days with 35-40% outside of the northeast. I do that because I'm a variety junky, not necessarily because I'll be guaranteed powder out west (unless I can line up more last-minute trips).

Last-minute trips =
1. More money than a EC jaunt
2. 25,000 FF miles and flight availability
3. Vacation days lined up in advance that happen to coincide with a dump out west

or

4. The ability to tell the man that, guess what, I'm not coming to work for several days

 

[skimore]

So what's the catch? Based on what their website says, Gore receives only 150" of snow a season, which is less than half of what some of the Northern Vermont resorts receive. I know that the Adirondacks don't get the snow that the Greens do, but at 150 inches, how would anything off piste even be covered to produce the awesome days that I frequently see on this board? I have been to Whiteface, and based on that experience and the reports from Harvey, Jimski, Sharon, Powderfreak, etc. Gore sounds much better in many regards (snowfall, glades, weather, atmosphere, etc.). I really want to get over there and check it out. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want Gore as their home mountain. If I lived right at Gore or had that as my easiest access, I don't think I'd worry about heading across the lake to get to Northern Vermont all that often. Gore sounds like an undiscovered gem of a resort that many people don't know about, and it looks like some nice improvements are on the way. So what's not to like?

There's plenty to like, but

The chair that services the top is only about 800-900'. There isn't an off piste area from the top that you could ski continuously back to the lift that serves the upper mtn. The steep off piste stuff up top is short. You'd be hard pressed to find anything longer than 500' . You would get about that by doing short traverse above Chatti glade. More like 200' here and 300' there. It's split into an upper and lower half with a flat area between the two. Most of the lower OP is very flat. It will have significantly less snow and many times be wet and heavy as most all of the lower mountain faces east.


Off piste frequently is a problem. Many times stuff is just barely covered. On 2/21/09 I was in the new Cirque glades(lower mountain) and it just plain sucked due to the cover. There was 6-8" of dense snow overnight, but still had sticks and logs poking through all over the place. We didn't hit it for first tracks, but by 11am it looked like a bomb went off in there. Below is a picture from the same day side country at Gore that faces North around 2700' elev. You can see from picture that stuff is just barely covered.

We pass up Gore for NVT and have to drive right by it. The powder days are few and far between at Gore

Gore

By comparison here is picture from end of Jan in Central ADK. Easily had twice the snow pack. Too bad there's no ski Mtn in the Central......wait, I like it that way

 

[Tony Crocker]

jamesdeluxe's profile of ski days seems reasonable for someone in NYC metro.

 

[Harvey]

The big mystery lies in this:

"Guests can expect more convenient access to Burnt Ridge for the upcoming winter, including a new expansion of the "Cirque Glades" all the way to the base of the Burnt Ridge Quad."

No one seems to be willing to say what that means. Expansion of Cirque Glades is very cool and technically that will improve access to the BRQ.

There is hope that there could be an easier way to get TO the BRQ from the main mountain. The word "including" makes it seem like there is more planned. Some work done to get from the worm hole on twister, directly to the bottom of BRQ would be great.

I'd responded to an email from Gore about the pass deadline. It included a reference like the one in Admin's piece... to improved access to BRQ.

My question:

Can you give details on how you are going to improve access to BRQ?

The answer:

...(thanks) for your interest in our work towards improving access to Burnt Ridge Mountain. We hope you have enjoyed the high-speed quad and the variety of terrain in that new area. You thought Cirque Glades were big last year? For this season we will be extending those glades all the way to the base of the Burnt Ridge Quad. The exciting addition of snowmaking on Sagamore will open that trail more frequently, delivering you right to the base of the lift as well.

We will work towards improving the slope of Cedars, as we make the trek ourselves and understand it can provide a workout! However, please keep in mind that there are a few areas of Gore's Adirondack landscape, designed first by Mother Nature, that will occasionally present skiers and riders a few challenges...

 

[Admin]

I'm working at getting official clarification for you folks. Moments ago, the source of said official clarification joined the FTO Liftlines forums.

 

[Harvey]

If GoreGirl is who I think she is...that's her quote above. Either way - welcome aboard.

 

[J.Spin]

who say's i need powder to have a quality day.

I think the powder part was mostly in reference to my personal preferences (or other folks like me), where fresh/soft snow is very important. I just didn't know if the ~150 inches of snow/season number for Gore was the real deal or a number that they threw out there. It just seems like they get a lot more snow than that based on the reports I’ve seen here, although skimore’s recent reply suggests that powder days are rather rare.

 

[Harvey]

So what's the catch? Based on what their website says, Gore receives only 150" of snow a season, which is less than half of what some of the Northern Vermont resorts receive. I know that the Adirondacks don't get the snow that the Greens do, but at 150 inches, how would anything off piste even be covered to produce the awesome days that I frequently see on this board? I have been to Whiteface, and based on that experience and the reports from Harvey, Jimski, Sharon, Powderfreak, etc. Gore sounds much better in many regards (snowfall, glades, weather, atmosphere, etc.). I really want to get over there and check it out. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want Gore as their home mountain. If I lived right at Gore or had that as my easiest access, I don't think I'd worry about heading across the lake to get to Northern Vermont all that often. Gore sounds like an undiscovered gem of a resort that many people don't know about, and it looks like some nice improvements are on the way. So what's not to like?

Great post Jspin.

I counted 150" almost exactly this year:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2009/02/me ... otals.html

That was with almost nothing after Feb 20. While that was an average total, what was below average was the late season - almost no snow. What was better than average was the lack of multiple debilitating rain/meltdown situations. I'd bet that the number of days the trees were skiable this season was above average.

I'm probably the culprit on the Gore reports. Probably half of the Gore reports are mine. The problem is that when I'm skiing I am totally pysched, and I end up having a good time. I'm sure most of you guys, not just Tony and Jspin....would be bored out of your minds doing what I do. Driving up the interstate, lighting a fire, waking up before dawn, making coffee, driving over, and skiing as hard as I can all day long. Comin home for beer and blog. Just typing that sentence is fun. :roll: To some extent I think that is what Jason is saying. He likes to ski.

One thing about terrain expansion at Gore....it ain't happenin at the summit. Every inch of the summit is a trail, a marked glade or an unmarked tree run. Skimore is right...the Cirque is beautiful, but it's basically lower mountain....so you need extra ordinary conditions for the coverage to hold up. On that awesome Dec 20 day this past year....Cirque was great, but the snowfall wasn't enough to cover the small creeks that were still open and running.

Another point Tony has made....I'm a teleskier - 800 feet of vertical is fine for me. Slow lifts are great. The Dark Side has even less real vertical and it's probably my favorite part of the mountain. I understand that my lack of any need for variety puts me in the minority. I completely understand why expert alpiners would choose other mountains. I had a hell of a time keeping up with Patrick and James at Whiteface.

The act of skiing for me is magic. I still can't believe that I can even do it. It may have something to do with starting at age 40. Every time I get my skis around that next tree, I smile inside.

I'm probably not going to change my viewpoint. My reports are probably going to continue to be offensively optimistic to Chris or others. Let's face it... I'm just a cross country skier who learned to make Pturns and took it over to Gore, to get some early season slidin. Now I'm hooked.

 

[icelanticskier]

good on ya harv!!!!

ski happy

rog

 

[skimore]

Can you give details on how you are going to improve access to BRQ?

The answer:

...(thanks) for your interest in our work towards improving access to Burnt Ridge Mountain. We hope you have enjoyed the high-speed quad and the variety of terrain in that new area. You thought Cirque Glades were big last year? For this season we will be extending those glades all the way to the base of the Burnt Ridge Quad. The exciting addition of snowmaking on Sagamore will open that trail more frequently, delivering you right to the base of the lift as well.

We will work towards improving the slope of Cedars, as we make the trek ourselves and understand it can provide a workout! However, please keep in mind that there are a few areas of Gore's Adirondack landscape, designed first by Mother Nature, that will occasionally present skiers and riders a few challenges...

Harv
One thing they could have done better with the Cirque glade. Remove all the stuff they cut. They don't get enough snow to leave all those branch's and tree tops lying around. It was kind of poorly gladed and skied better before they cut. They could have really just cut the 1-2" saplings and it would have been fine.