Introducing Mountain Rider's Alliance

[Admin]

My advice to soulskier, should he accept it, is to listen to Bernstein. Jamie, in case you haven't figured it out by now, this is what he does for a living and does it well.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Amen to the above. Soulskier has taken on Patrick as a consultant. Mike Bernstein has provided a long and detailed list of constructive advice above that should be worth more to soulskier than the 20+ pages of threads from the rest of us dating back to Shames in 2009. [-o<

 

[Geoff]

What I referenced was how Jiminy Peak installed a wind turbine and the following season their skier visits jumped 15%.

I have also referenced Ben and Jerry's and their values based approach. They have since been sold to a big conglomerate.

Do you actually think there is a causal relationship between the installation of a wind turbine and an increase in skier visits the following season? Really? I mean, you're serious? Without considering other factors like the economy and the weather? Maybe even Jiminy Peak's marketing department?

People did not buy B&J ice cream because of the values of the founders - they bought it 'cause it tasted damned good. As such they garnered enough market share and built an outstanding P&L statement that was attractive to Unilever when they decided to sell the company and cash out.

...and B&J only could afford their feel-good policies because their premium ice cream business was immensely profitable. If they had been operating on razor-thin margins, 100% Vermont-origin cream, cadillac benefits for employees, and the like would never have happened. Back when they were operating out of a gas station in downtown Burlington in the late-1970's with a 4 month season for their store front, nobody had health insurance or paid vacation. If some NY State dairy had offered them a 50% discount on cream, they would have jumped all over it.

 

[rfarren]

I think the prevailing advice is to get it up and running. Prove you can get it in the black, and once that you're comfortable with that then you can go ahead and spend on warm fuzzy green energy solutions.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

I think the prevailing advice is to get it up and running. Prove you can get it in the black, and once that you're comfortable with that then you can go ahead and spend on warm fuzzy green energy solutions.

I think it's a little more subtle than that. To a limited extent, soulskier CAN have his cake and eat it too. There are plenty of small initiatives/steps/actions he can take as part of the start-up process that would firmly set an MRA area on the path to being more environmentally sustainable. The list I outlined above likely represents only a small % of the options at his disposal. They key thing is that none of these would take up an excessive share of his budget or his mgmt time/attention such that they would detract from the far more important goal of getting operating. He'd still be in the top 5-10% of most environmentally friendly ski resorts and could look himself in the mirror and be proud of his record in that regard.

Largely or entirely off-setting his area's carbon footprint with a wind turbine or some other form of alternative energy is a completely different animal, and one that should only be undertaken after a long period of careful consideration and with several years of successful operation under his belt. The cost and complexity of such an investment are orders of magnitude greater than any of the small scale initiatives he can take in the interim.

 

[Admin]

Well, so much for understanding the accessibility argument -- it's "accessible" to Anchorage, Alaska residents only:

Mountain Rider’s Alliance to present Manitoba Mountain Ski Area Restoration Project

Mountain Rider’s Alliance (MRA) Project Manager, Dave Scanlan, will be outlining a proposal for the Manitoba Mountain Ski Area Restoration Project at the Girdwood Library on Thursday, February 24th at 6 p.m. Following the presentation, a question and answer session will be held and community feedback will be encouraged.

Manitoba Mountain is located at Mile 49 on the Seward Highway at the site of the Historic Manitoba Ski Area and the Glacier Ski Lodge that operated from 1941 to 1959. The earliest recorded history of skiing on the Kenai Peninsula was in 1790. Anchorage is located 90 minutes away and there is a population base of 325,000 within a three-hour drive. At a base elevation of 1,250 feet, this region of the Chugach Mountains receives an estimated 350-550 inches of snow annually.

 

[rfarren]

Well now people going to Alyeska have another choice. I guess it's good for those who's heli weeks have been clouded out. Otherwise might as well be in South America.

 

[Patrick]

Well, so much for understanding the accessibility argument -- it's "accessible" to Anchorage, Alaska residents only

More much accessible than Terrace, no?
Not too far from a metropolitan area of almost 400k served by major airlines.
Mountain and snow - check.

You didn't expect it to be within driving distance from SLC, did you?

 

[Patrick]

Otherwise might as well be in South America.

I've heard so many times from some in the peanut gallery on FTO that SA wasn't worth the hastle compare to locations in NA. That snow wasn't reliable, etc. You guys can't have it both ways. ](*,)

 

[Admin]

Well, so much for understanding the accessibility argument -- it's "accessible" to Anchorage, Alaska residents only

More much accessible than Terrace, no?

That's kind of like saying that spam tastes a heck of a lot better than dog crap. It's true, but...

Not too far from a metropolitan area of almost 400k served by major airlines.

At some of the highest domestic airline rates available.

Mountain and snow - check.

Moose and bears, check.

You didn't expect it to be within driving distance from SLC, did you?

No, but I thought that maybe a morsel of what was discussed here stuck to the wall.

Well now people going to Alyeska have another choice.

Only if they're happy with poma lifts and T-bars.

 

[Admin]

Here are the full deets:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/News/2 ... Peninsula/

 

[Patrick]

You don't need to go to Alaska to see Bear and Moose. :roll:

There are only(?) surface lift at the NZ Clubfields, isn't there? You have to start somewhere, right? If it works, you can always add... a single... 8-[ . But it wouldn't be unique anymore, as Alaska already has a ski area with one of those. :mrgreen:

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Only if they're happy with poma lifts and T-bars.

SoulSkier: could you build a GMD replica so Admin will feel more comfortable at your new mountain?

 

[Marc_C]

Only if they're happy with poma lifts and T-bars.

SoulSkier: could you build a GMD replica so Admin will feel more comfortable at your new mountain?

It would cost us ~$900 to get from SLC to Anchorage. I doubt Admin will be buying tix anytime soon.

 

[Patrick]

Only if they're happy with poma lifts and T-bars.

SoulSkier: could you build a GMD replica so Admin will feel more comfortable at your new mountain?

It would cost us ~$900 to get from SLC to Anchorage. I doubt Admin will be buying tix anytime soon.

I don't even think Admin hasn't skied outside a 100 miles radius from his home since he moved to Utah. Like James would say, rarely outside LCC. :-({|=

 

[Admin]

I don't even think Admin hasn't skied outside a 100 miles radius from his home since he moved to Utah. Like James would say, rarely outside LCC. :-({|=

I exceeded that radius just this past weekend, and have on a couple of other occasions as well, but for the most part you're right -- when I've got world class skiing 20 minutes from home why travel for something that's clearly inferior?

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I don't even think Admin hasn't skied outside a 100 miles radius from his home since he moved to Utah. Like James would say, rarely outside LCC. :-({|=

For the record, I wasn't criticizing Admin for spending most of his ski days in LCC. He spent years on the destination-trip treadmill and decided that given his present setup, why bother.

 

[Patrick]

I don't even think Admin hasn't skied outside a 100 miles radius from his home since he moved to Utah. Like James would say, rarely outside LCC. :-({|=

For the record, I wasn't criticizing Admin for spending most of his ski days in LCC. He spent years on the destination-trip treadmill and decided that given his present setup, why bother.

To each his own, even if I would live in SLC, I would still want to move around to Wyoming, California, Colorado, Western Canada, the NE, Asia, SA, Alaska, Europe, etc... (Tony, no wisecracks about my current skiing pattern being close to home base - I'm going it for my daughter).

Not everyone is like myself, nor like Admin. I've seen a number of Utah skiers in SA. Like many of them would never leave the state to go skiing. One isn't better than the other, just saying. So Marc C saying that Admin wouldn't go buy a tix to fly to Anchorage isn't necessarily relavent.

 

[Admin]

So Marc C saying that Admin wouldn't go buy a tix to fly to Anchorage isn't necessarily relavent.

But I hardly think that I'm alone in saying that I wouldn't spend $900 to fly somewhere to ride only pomas and T-bars.

 

[Marc_C]

To each his own, even if I would live in SLC, I would still want to move around to Wyoming, California, Colorado, Western Canada,...

I thought that, too, when I first moved here....

So Marc C saying that Admin wouldn't go buy a tix to fly to Anchorage isn't necessarily relavent.

Yes, it is...not in the idea of wanting to travel or not, but the simple fact that getting to Anchorage is pretty much more expensive than traveling to almost anywhere else in North America to ski.

So to answer the question posed in the title of this thread 25 pages ago....no, the ski resort model is not dead, not by a long shot, if the alternatives are difficult or more expensive to get to and offer a sub-standard experience. Nothing but surface lifts is pretty substandard for most folks, no matter how great the snow and terrain. So is a single chair.