Introducing Mountain Rider's Alliance

[Patrick]

So Marc C saying that Admin wouldn't go buy a tix to fly to Anchorage isn't necessarily relavent.

But I hardly think that I'm alone in saying that I wouldn't spend $900 to fly somewhere to ride only pomas and T-bars.

No you are not, but there are some that would. Going to Alaska isn't only about going to MRA. Going to New Zealand isn't only about skiing with nutcrackers.

Lucky Luke is only using one chair, one t-bar and skins for another 3 wks for the 4th year in a row.

Got to go home now, wax some skis and go skiing. Great popcorn machine in the Vorlage Bar...it's not only about the skiing. Cheers.

 

[Patrick]

Nothing but surface lifts is pretty substandard for most folks, no matter how great the snow and terrain. So is a single chair.

I agree, for most folks.

Most folks don't ski MRG either because it has almost no snowmaking (being the East), minimal grooming, no snowboarding, no ski-in/ski-out options, no high speed lifts and potentially long liftlines...yet, it works and some people return and ski it.

 

[Marc_C]

Most folks don't ski MRG either because it has almost no snowmaking (being the East), minimal grooming, no snowboarding, no ski-in/ski-out options, no high speed lifts and potentially long liftlines...yet, it works and some people return and ski it.

It works not because some people return, but because enough people return. Will that be the case for an area that is difficult and expensive to get to? Look at Eagle Point (the former Elk Meadows) in UT (Admin just wrote a TR about his trip there last weekend). Within a 3 hr drive of about 3.5 million people (Wasatch Front, St. George, and Las Vegas Metro)...devoid of customers on a beautiful Saturday - and the former incarnation was shuttered for the past 3 years.

Again, the question of "Is the ski resort model dead?" has been rather soundly answered.

 

[Admin]

Look at Eagle Point (the former Elk Meadows) in UT (Admin just wrote a TR about his trip there last weekend). Within a 3 hr drive of about 3.5 million people (Wasatch Front, St. George, and Las Vegas Metro)...devoid of customers on a beautiful Saturday - and the former incarnation was shuttered for the past 3 years.

9 years.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

A few thoughts:

1) The FTO article says the Alyeska is on the Kenai Peninsula. Is that true? I thought the peninsula is everything south of Turnagain Arm while Girdwood/Alyeska is to the north of it on the mainland.

2) From a location/access standpoint, this really isn't all that bad relative to my expectations. When you consider the mix of terrain and snowfall the MRA is going for, you tend not to find it too close to metro areas with a new notable exceptions. Put it this way - it's a lot easier, quicker and cheaper to get to Manitoba Mtn than it is to Shames.

3) Change the name - it's confusing as hell. Besides, it will just get our Canadian friends up in arms that we are annexing them even if we are content to simply have them as a lovely, warm hat on the Lower 50. :lol:

4) Where exactly is this place? Trying to find the exact spot on Google Maps. Verticle? Other relevant stats?

5) I don't think that the use of surface lifts alone is going to be a huge deterrent to their target market. It sure wouldn't bother me. The quality of terrain is a higher priority than the conveyance used to access it.

6) I'd like to know how they will deal with the (lack of) daylight issues that exist until mid/late February.

 

[rfarren]

So Marc C saying that Admin wouldn't go buy a tix to fly to Anchorage isn't necessarily relavent.

But I hardly think that I'm alone in saying that I wouldn't spend $900 to fly somewhere to ride only pomas and T-bars.

If I'm spending $900 on flights to go to one of the most expensive regions in the states (I live in NYC and I was shocked how expensive anchorage was) I might as well fly to Europe for a ski trip. The problem I see for destination skiers is:

1.People out west will ski closer to their local mountains, and not pay that much to go to Alaska in winter.
2.People on the EC for the most part won't be willing to pay $900-$1000 to go skiing in Alaska, when the airfare to Europe during this time period is $300 cheaper. Europe offers big mountain skiing and a cultural experience.
3. Could be the type of place people go to if it gets a reputation of always having powder. Hardcore skiers mountain. The issue will be cheap lodging imho.
That means this will rely on mostly local skiers. I don't foresee an issue with this as long as the costs are kept low. I however, don't see solar panels as having much use up there in the winter. So much for the energy creation bs.

 

[rfarren]

Otherwise might as well be in South America.

I've heard so many times from some in the peanut gallery on FTO that SA wasn't worth the hastle compare to locations in NA. That snow wasn't reliable, etc. You guys can't have it both ways. ](*,)

I was talking location and flight times, not snow conditions etc...

To your point. SA offers skiing in the summer, that's a different game. I'll do the long flight for a cultural experience when I have no other options to get turns. Alaska competes against the rest of NA during the winter. Destination skiers who go up there in the winter are either heli-skiing or looking for something out of the ordinary.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

3. Could be the type of place people go to if it gets a reputation of always having powder. Hardcore skiers mountain. The issue will be cheap lodging imho.
That means this will rely on mostly local skiers. I don't foresee an issue with this as long as the costs are kept low. I however, don't see solar panels as having much use up there in the winter. So much for the energy creation bs.

This is a good point. Where is the closest lodging?

 

[rfarren]

4) Where exactly is this place? Trying to find the exact spot on Google Maps. Verticle? Other relevant stats?

Check out this site:http://www.alsap.org/alsapmap.htm it's on route 1 south of Anchorage. Based on the photo provided the terrain looks pretty good. As far as the stats all I could find was: http://www.alsap.org/Manitoba/Manitoba.htm

 

[Admin]

4) Where exactly is this place? Trying to find the exact spot on Google Maps. Verticle? Other relevant stats?

Here, this is just the general area:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 4&t=p&z=10

 

[rfarren]

4) Where exactly is this place? Trying to find the exact spot on Google Maps. Verticle? Other relevant stats?

Here, this is just the general area:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 4&t=p&z=10

Based on that map you would stay at cooper landing. I don't see any other towns within 30 minutes via car. Sterling is a clear hour away. Maybe he'll have to develope some real estate. A lodge alla portillo?

 

[Admin]

Based on that map you would stay at cooper landing. I don't see any other towns within 30 minutes via car. Sterling is a clear hour away. Maybe he'll have to develope some real estate. A lodge alla portillo?

http://www.summitlakelodge.com/

 

[rfarren]

Based on that map you would stay at cooper landing. I don't see any other towns within 30 minutes via car. Sterling is a clear hour away. Maybe he'll have to develope some real estate. A lodge alla portillo?

http://www.summitlakelodge.com/

Not exactly cheap. I was thinking more youth hostelish.

 

[Admin]

Based on that map you would stay at cooper landing. I don't see any other towns within 30 minutes via car. Sterling is a clear hour away. Maybe he'll have to develope some real estate. A lodge alla portillo?

http://www.summitlakelodge.com/

Not exactly cheap. I was thinking more youth hostelish.

Neither is Portillo (your reference, not mine).

IMO, $250/night for 2 people including breakfast ain't bad for the middle of nowhere. The cabins are a better rate at $165/night for two.

 

[rfarren]

Based on that map you would stay at cooper landing. I don't see any other towns within 30 minutes via car. Sterling is a clear hour away. Maybe he'll have to develope some real estate. A lodge alla portillo?

http://www.summitlakelodge.com/

Not exactly cheap. I was thinking more youth hostelish.

Neither is Portillo (your reference, not mine).

IMO, $250/night for 2 people including breakfast ain't bad for the middle of nowhere. The cabins are a better rate at $165/night for two.

That is true, but 900$ for airfare, car rental etc... Gets up there.

Btw I was thinking how portillo has that part of the hotel which is like a hostel + meals are included.

 

[EMSC]

Hard to predict the outcome of this one without a lot more detail from MRA on the terrain to be accessed via lift, etc...

First blush it won't likely be a significant draw for destination folks as mentioned by the huge airfares to Anchorage... Though for those that do come (I've heard the Japanese come in decent numbers to Alyeska, but then Japanese are mostly trail skiers though...) I could see a day or two spent there by some portion, I guess. The base is higher so fewer rain events, but then how frequent are they such that a typical Anchorage person wants to drive an extra 50 minutes beyond Girdwood which already gets tons of snow itself (at least on the upper half)? Plus much of Anchorage's burb's and 'metro population' is actually on the opposite side of the city center from either resort for an even longer drive than those living in downtown... Makes for long day trips when you start approaching the 2 hr mark...

As to renewable power the only one that I can think of that would be economical and still would run only probably half the year is micro hydro (and it would run mostly opposite ski operations in spring/summer). Certainly not PV solar, and wind seems iffy at best in that area. Either not much of it for stretches or way too windy of storms blowing through...

Surface lifts are cheap for initial use, but even experts get rather tired from a full day on ONLY those lifts. Maybe they'll put in a big brewhouse where everyone takes a two hour lunch :lol:

Anyway interested in details, not just the first blush...

 

[Tony Crocker]

The local population base is 8x Shames. And only only somewhat less than the 500K immediate drive-up base for the NZ club fields. So if the terrain and snow are good enough I could see local support.

It would cost us ~$900 to get from SLC to Anchorage.

I'm flying RT SLC-Anchorage at the end of next week and the fare was $625. Nonetheless that was still high enough that I'm using mileage instead. And the overall point about expense is valid. Alyeska was quiet during the latter of part of my 2007 visit despite nice weather and the US Nationals being held there. NASJA members are complaining about the cost of this year's meeting there and I thus I predict relatively low attendance.

I agree with the other skeptical comments about non-local patronage.
1) Short season with the light: mid-February to mid-April.
2) Competition with other northern destinations, so NZ/SA comparisons don't necessarily apply.
3) "Not just about the skiing?" Maybe true in NZ/SA/Europe/Japan but a lot of Alaska's mainstream attractions (Denali, cruises, etc.) don't operate in the ski season.
4) I would be surprised if there are many Japanese skiers considering what they have at home. Maybe more of them back during the bubble years when Japanese ski areas were overcongested. Note the Japanese who built the Hotel Alyeska got out a few years ago.

So the success of this venture will depend on the locals IMHO. Alaskans are tough like the Kiwis. They will make do with the surface lifts if the ski product is good enough.

I agree with EMSC that only hydro is likely to make sense for possible energy production.

Good questions by Mike Bernstein; I hope we hear more details soon.

 

[EMSC]

4) I would be surprised if there are many Japanese skiers considering what they have at home. Maybe more of them back during the bubble years when Japanese ski areas were overcongested. Note the Japanese who built the Hotel Alyeska got out a few years ago.

I was mostly speculating as I know for a while at least it was Alyeska's biggest source of destination skiers. I also know that the Japanese still hold on to some 'superstitions' such as making babies while the aurora borealis is going on outside/overhead (which was probably secondary, but a fun reason to hit Alaska for them for a while).

Also, for reference, I just looked at a late march flight out of DIA to Anchorage and they go as low as $477 from here that time of year (incl all the taxes, but not baggage). Of course I don't imagine all that many skiers from here going elsewhere too often with what is available in-state or just a day drive to Taos, Utah, Jackson, etc...

 

[Patrick]

Neither is Portillo (your reference, not mine).

IMO, $250/night for 2 people including breakfast ain't bad for the middle of nowhere. The cabins are a better rate at $165/night for two.

The main hotel at Portillo isn't cheap, but there are a few lodge outside main building which are cheaper. The Inca Lodge fits the build for hostellish. The cost (2006) for one night/skiing/cafeteria meals/access to the main hotel stuff was $74US.

Marc C, you're comparing Eagle PT in a hightly competitive ski area market far from metro and next to the best skiing in the World (not my words). What are the ski options close to Anchorage Alaska? One big resort, one ski area outside of town, some heli and skinning. I know traveling types like Tony and myself on a trip to Alyeska would be tempted to ski Manitoba to check it out and look at the goods a bit like people hitting Mad River Valley would ski Sugarbush and some time check out MRG.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I know traveling types like Tony and myself on a trip to Alyeska would be tempted to ski Manitoba to check it out and look at the goods a bit like people hitting Mad River Valley would ski Sugarbush and some time check out MRG.

I agree with this personally, but our tiny "nutcase" minority is not going to pay the bills to keep this place going. FYI I agree with Mike Bernstein about changing the name; it has to be confusing.