Introducing Mountain Rider's Alliance

[soulskier]

MRA will be conducting three more community outreach meetings and presentations next week.

April 11-Kenai River Center, Soldotna

April 12-Seward High School Theater, Seward

April 13-Alaska Pacific University, Carl Gottstein Building, Room 102, Anchorage

All meetings will begin at 7pm

 

[Tony Crocker]

I agree the lower lift should be a chair to be more family/intermediate friendly. MRA should be able to pick up a used one at a reasonable price from some big area putting in a high speed. That's how Castle Mt. got its upper lift (old peak chair at Sunshine) and Silverton its chair (old chair 15 at Mammoth).

 

[Marc_C]

I agree the lower lift should be a chair to be more family/intermediate friendly. MRA should be able to pick up a used one at a reasonable price from some big area putting in a high speed. That's how Castle Mt. got its upper lift (old peak chair at Sunshine) and Silverton its chair (old chair 15 at Mammoth).

But Tony, doing that would loose all the soulfulness of the area. You're forgetting that with the idiots running this venture, ideology is far more important than generating enough revenue to cover operating costs. Pragmatism has no home here.

 

[EMSC]

When I was a kid, most intermediate ski areas didn't have chairlifts. Give it time. Manitoba ski area didn't have any chairlifts I believe when it existed. Now I'm hearing arguments against anything that isn't a triple for beginners and ski instructors.

Yep and I started out at a ski area with a t-bar, poma and rope tow as the only lifts. Which has long since gone out of business...

 

[Marc_C]

When I was a kid, most intermediate ski areas didn't have chairlifts. Give it time. Manitoba ski area didn't have any chairlifts I believe when it existed. Now I'm hearing arguments against anything that isn't a triple for beginners and ski instructors.

Yep and I started out at a ski area with a t-bar, poma and rope tow as the only lifts. Which has long since gone out of business...

I'll bet you also had to hike 5 miles, in the snow, uphill, in both directions, from where you tied up your horse to get there. Yeah, the "Why, back in my day, sonny..." argument doesn't work anymore. Regarding Patrick's last sentence, it actually should be a detachable for beginners so the load speed is slower. (BTW, for those that don't know, the primary lift at Alta that services 90% of the beginner terrain is a high speed detachable triple. But as amply proven in other threads, Alta is obviously a ski area that lacks soul.)

 

[rfarren]

Yep and I started out at a ski area with a t-bar, poma and rope tow as the only lifts. Which has long since gone out of business...

Good point EMSC. My main concern with this project is who it is made for.
Is it going to be a powder haven for the most advanced? If so the lift tix better be pretty expensive otherwise this won't be sustainable (think along the lines of silverton). If that be the case, maybe it would be better (more cost effective) to just buy a snowcat or a small fleet of snowmobiles to ferry people around and think of it as a backcountry haven.

If this is going to be more of a family mountain then:
a. it should have at least one chairlift from the base to the upper mountain ( it's one thing to use a t bar for 1k of vert but 2k, forget about it)
b. it should understand it is competing against Alyeska which is closer to Anchorage (the local populous) and has a more developed infrastructure that is more friendly towards tourists.
c. it should fully recognize the margins of a ski hill are razor thin due to the seasonality of the sport, and therefore be extremely pragmatic when it comes to spending, i.e. forget the windmills etc, green energy...

If we look at Hickory in NY as a case example:
-It is a great hill but only operates on the weekends to contain cost (this might be a good idea for manitoba, it would contain costs, and if there is a midweek storm Manitoba could build a reputation as the place to go for powder 3 or 4 days after a storm).
-In order to compete against the other places nearby they will eventually need a chair lift, but to do so will jeopardize the project as it will put the mountain in serious debt. It is a very risky proposition indeed, even though the mountain has a hardcore and loyal following, especially after a snowstorm.
-The mountain is absolutely barebones when it comes to amenities, which is not a bad thing. They don't even have a liquor license so you have to bring your own apres party, but it just goes to show how hard it is to break even. They only employ something like 5-10 part time employees, have a bunch of passionate volunteers, and that on a mountain that only has about 400 acres and 1500 vert. I imagine as the scale of the mountain goes up so will the costs, so Soulskier will have to reconcile that.

 

[soulskier]

But as amply proven in other threads, Alta is obviously a ski area that lacks soul.)

For the record, I believe Alta is very much a soulful place.

As best I could tell last week, it's still all about the skiing, not frills. People hunker down and live in little shit boxes all season just so the can ski the legendary powder when the Canyon is closed. Also, year after year, Alta has the most consistent snow conditions in the US, period. The Alta Bird pass seems to have made for more traffic, and there are high speed lifts now and an almost $70 lift ticket, but, in my humble opinion Alta Ski Lifts is still skier-centric.

 

[rfarren]

But as amply proven in other threads, Alta is obviously a ski area that lacks soul.)

For the record, I believe Alta is very much a soulful place.

As best I could tell last week, it's still all about the skiing, not frills. People hunker down and live in little [censored] boxes all season just so the can ski the legendary powder when the Canyon is closed. Also, year after year, Alta has the most consistent snow conditions in the US, period. The Alta Bird pass seems to have made for more traffic, and there are high speed lifts now and an almost $70 lift ticket, but, in my humble opinion Alta Ski Lifts is still skier-centric.

My wife's one complaint about Alta was that she wished it had Park City's main street. It would've saved me a lot of money to let her roam around a shopping centric base village on the powder day I was there a week back(rather than stick her in the spa). Those base villages that are so reviled give non-skiers activities to do other than skiing. I don't see that as stripping the soul of a place. IMHO it's a boon to those passionate skiers who have families that aren't as passionate about skiing, but enjoy it occasionally.

 

[Marc_C]

But as amply proven in other threads, Alta is obviously a ski area that lacks soul.)

For the record, I believe Alta is very much a soulful place.

As best I could tell last week, it's still all about the skiing, not frills. People hunker down and live in little [censored] boxes all season just so the can ski the legendary powder when the Canyon is closed. Also, year after year, Alta has the most consistent snow conditions in the US, period. The Alta Bird pass seems to have made for more traffic, and there are high speed lifts now and an almost $70 lift ticket, but, in my humble opinion Alta Ski Lifts is still skier-centric.

Wow.
You see only what you want to see, and even then it's filtered through an idealistic haze. Spoken like a true visitor who doesn't understand one iota of the local scene. You really are amazingly clueless.

Do you have any clue about the cost of those "little shit boxes" that people "hunker down in"? Are you even vaguely aware of what the overnight cost is at one of the lodges? Do you have any f-ing clue as to how few days per year it is when people hunkered down can "ski the legendary powder when the Canyon is closed"? Here's a hint - over the course of a season, it's easier to measure in hours than days.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

You really are amazingly clueless.

First there was "Admin & Tony," now there's "Marc C & Soul Skier." I need to find a straight man as a foil for my ski-area arguments.

:-k

Hey Mikesathome, do you mind if I yell at you from time to time and call you names?

 

[soulskier]

But as amply proven in other threads, Alta is obviously a ski area that lacks soul.)

For the record, I believe Alta is very much a soulful place.

As best I could tell last week, it's still all about the skiing, not frills. People hunker down and live in little [censored] boxes all season just so the can ski the legendary powder when the Canyon is closed. Also, year after year, Alta has the most consistent snow conditions in the US, period. The Alta Bird pass seems to have made for more traffic, and there are high speed lifts now and an almost $70 lift ticket, but, in my humble opinion Alta Ski Lifts is still skier-centric.

Wow.
You see only what you want to see, and even then it's filtered through an idealistic haze. Spoken like a true visitor who doesn't understand one iota of the local scene. You really are amazingly clueless.

Do you have any clue about the cost of those "little [censored] boxes" that people "hunker down in"? Are you even vaguely aware of what the overnight cost is at one of the lodges? Do you have any f-ing clue as to how few days per year it is when people hunkered down can "ski the legendary powder when the Canyon is closed"? Here's a hint - over the course of a season, it's easier to measure in hours than days.

I believe you have misunderstood me. I am not talking about overnight lodging, I am talking about the passholders/employees that live in little dorm rooms, often 2-4 per room, for the whole season, just to be pole position to ski powder. And those magical hours when the canyon is closed and they are lapping High Rustler, it makes it all worth it to them.

IMO, the soul of an area shouldn't be gauged by the visiting guests and overnight lodging prices/options, but to the core group of locals that make up the mountain and vibe that the visitors pick up on.

 

[rfarren]

I am not talking about overnight lodging, I am talking about the passholders/employees that live in little dorm rooms, often 2-4 per room, for the whole season, just to be pole position to ski powder. And those magical hours when the canyon is closed and they are lapping High Rustler, it makes it all worth it to them.

1.Um... those guys who live in those dorms work during those magical hours.
2. Every major ski resort has people living in dorms so they can get turns. It's called ski bumming, and ski bums are at Vail, Aspen, Jackson, Heavenly, Tahoe, Stowe, Copper, Breck, Taos, pretty much every place in this country worth skiing has ski bums regardless of your platitudinous "soul".
3. Those people aren't locals, they are transient workers, that are working for turns.

IMO, the soul of an area shouldn't be gauged by the visiting guests and overnight lodging prices/options, but to the core group of locals that make up the mountain and vibe that the visitors pick up on.

Again, those people you cited aren't locals, they are transient workers, that are working for turns. Secondly, people like that don't pay the bills. It's very important to bring people from the outside. A mountain can't support ski-bums without outsiders spending their money there. A mountain exclusively for locals and ski bums will never pull in enough money to survive.

 

[soulskier]

Again, those people you cited aren't locals, they are transient workers, that are working for turns. Secondly, people like that don't pay the bills. It's very important to bring people from the outside. A mountain can't support ski-bums without outsiders spending their money there. A mountain exclusively for locals and ski bums will never pull in enough money to survive.

I think it is important to point out that the notion that all "ski bums" are broke is a common misconception. They just have a different set of priorities. The "dirt bag" who was reference in Resorting to Madness trailer is a father of 3, owns a home at a ski area in Tahoe and runs a successful business. He still manages to ski 80/days year.

To be clear, we are not going to exclude visitors from coming to our mountain playgrounds. Quite the contrary, we believe there is a niche to be filled, which is non-pretentious, lift served big mountain skiing. What we are witnessing in many of our ski towns is more people skiing the same terrain than ever before (and few terrain expansions to keep up with the demand) which in turn decreases the overall ski experience for many long time passholders. I attribute this to cheap season passes and new rockered ski technology.

At Squaw Valley, for example, a season pass for all but 15 days costs $379. This "SquawMart" philosophy leads to many folks buying them, and as a result, when the conditions are good to epic, many more people skiing. I heard a rumor that when passes where over $1,000 at Squaw, they sold around 2,500. Now annual pass sales are close to 20,000. Thats 8 times as much, but no new terrain to accommodate the masses.

The latest ski technology, fat and rockered skis to be exact, has aided many skiers in their learning curve. Never before have so many people skied off piste. Squaw has been having 45+ minute lift lines this season on heavy storm days. This is unprecedented, and the allure of powder, thanks to the latest skis and cheap passes are to blame.

To be clear, we have no illusions of competing with the corporate ski areas. There will always be a demand for upscale ski resorts. The Manitoba project, with 3 surface lifts accessing 10,000 acres of terrain and minimal infrastructure, will be a total different experience. Many of my friends used to drop 5K for a week of heli skiing in the Chugach. Now they will have an opportunity to ride similar terrain at their area for close to $30/day.

Will MRA areas attract many of the posters on this forum? No. But we do believe there is segment of the ski population whose needs are not currently being meet. With exception of Silverton, there are very few places in North America that provide lift access to big league terrain.

This is within a 30 minute ridgeline walk from the backcountry access gate.

 

[rfarren]

I think it is important to point out that the notion that all "ski bums" are broke is a common misconception. They just have a different set of priorities. The "dirt bag" who was reference in Resorting to Madness trailer is a father of 3, owns a home at a ski area in Tahoe and runs a successful business. He still manages to ski 80/days year.

I doubt this is who you were talking about when you talked about people living in dorm rooms for a winter. Let's not be disingenuous.

To be clear, we are not going to exclude visitors from coming to our mountain playgrounds. Quite the contrary, we believe there is a niche to be filled, which is non-pretentious, lift served big mountain skiing. What we are witnessing in many of our ski towns is more people skiing the same terrain than ever before (and few terrain expansions to keep up with the demand) which in turn decreases the overall ski experience for many long time passholders. I attribute this to cheap season passes and new rockered ski technology.

At Squaw Valley, for example, a season pass for all but 15 days costs $379. This "SquawMart" philosophy leads to many folks buying them, and as a result, when the conditions are good to epic, many more people skiing. I heard a rumor that when passes where over $1,000 at Squaw, they sold around 2,500. Now annual pass sales are close to 20,000. Thats 8 times as much, but no new terrain to accommodate the masses.

The latest ski technology, fat and rockered skis to be exact, has aided many skiers in their learning curve. Never before have so many people skied off piste. Squaw has been having 45+ minute lift lines this season on heavy storm days. This is unprecedented, and the allure of powder, thanks to the latest skis and cheap passes are to blame.

To be clear, we have no illusions of competing with the corporate ski areas. There will always be a demand for upscale ski resorts. The Manitoba project, with 3 surface lifts accessing 10,000 acres of terrain and minimal infrastructure, will be a total different experience. Many of my friends used to drop 5K for a week of heli skiing in the Chugach. Now they will have an opportunity to ride similar terrain at their area for close to $30/day.

I think you make a valid point about the quality of skiers, and that terrain has opened up to more and more people, however, your argument about it being a bad thing that a season pass is cheaper bespeaks some hypocrisy. You argue that some resorts are soulless due to cost, or infrastructure, or whatever have you, but these are the very resorts that open up skiing to the masses. Then you say that your resort will offer heli skiing quality for $30/day, but the math doesn't work. The sheer numbers required to break even means that the easily accessible lines will be quite skied. You pay 5k for heli skiing because you get what you pay for. The same argument you used against squaw is easily applied against manitoba. BTW I looked at where you put those lifts and those lifts don't serve 10,000 acres, the majority of that 10,000 acres is hike to, and will be bc, I don't see what makes it special in that light considering the quality of bc around the rest of the major resorts closer to home.

Will MRA areas attract many of the posters on this forum? No. But we do believe there is segment of the ski population whose needs are not currently being meet. With exception of Silverton, there are very few places in North America that provide lift access to big league terrain.

I would be interested in going there, but as an add on to an actual guided heli skiing trip. As a destination area it is bit too far, especially from the east coast, where it is far easier to reach europe's big mountains than Alaska's and for that matter cheaper. Again, those who live on the west coast who like that type of terrain can find it closer to home in the bc of many of the resorts around the country. I would also warn you that even though that segment of the market that you are targeting, though indeed growing, is not the bread and butter of any area, and for good reason. BTW Silverton's tix are $130+ a day, and they benefit from being a short ride from a major destination resort and town.

 

[rfarren]

This is within a 30 minute ridgeline walk from the backcountry access gate.

Not based on that earlier map you showed, try more like an 1 1/2 hour+

 

[soulskier]

I think it is important to point out that the notion that all "ski bums" are broke is a common misconception. They just have a different set of priorities. The "dirt bag" who was reference in Resorting to Madness trailer is a father of 3, owns a home at a ski area in Tahoe and runs a successful business. He still manages to ski 80/days year.

I doubt this is who you were talking about when you talked about people living in dorm rooms for a winter. Let's not be disingenuous.

Actually I am. This former "Dirt Bag" has been able to keep his ski bumming lifestyle going 20 years later, even with 3 kids and a mortgage.

To be clear, we are not going to exclude visitors from coming to our mountain playgrounds. Quite the contrary, we believe there is a niche to be filled, which is non-pretentious, lift served big mountain skiing. What we are witnessing in many of our ski towns is more people skiing the same terrain than ever before (and few terrain expansions to keep up with the demand) which in turn decreases the overall ski experience for many long time passholders. I attribute this to cheap season passes and new rockered ski technology.

At Squaw Valley, for example, a season pass for all but 15 days costs $379. This "SquawMart" philosophy leads to many folks buying them, and as a result, when the conditions are good to epic, many more people skiing. I heard a rumor that when passes where over $1,000 at Squaw, they sold around 2,500. Now annual pass sales are close to 20,000. Thats 8 times as much, but no new terrain to accommodate the masses.

The latest ski technology, fat and rockered skis to be exact, has aided many skiers in their learning curve. Never before have so many people skied off piste. Squaw has been having 45+ minute lift lines this season on heavy storm days. This is unprecedented, and the allure of powder, thanks to the latest skis and cheap passes are to blame.

I think you make a valid point about the quality of skiers, and that terrain has opened up to more and more people, however, your argument about it being a bad thing that a season pass is cheaper bespeaks some hypocrisy. You argue that some resorts are soulless due to cost, or infrastructure, or whatever have you, but these are the very resorts that open up skiing to the masses.

I'd like to speak a little more about this to make sure my position is clear. IMO, an annual season pass price of around $1,000 is very reasonably priced, and by no means "elistist". I ski close to 100 days at the resort, so for $10/day that's an excellent deal. My rants about the soul of mountain communities being eroded isn't due to a higher season pass price. In fact, at a recent Squaw passholders meeting, 17 of 20 passholders were in favor of restoring the old pass price, as we believe it would make for much smaller lines on good to excellent ski days.

My thoughts on what makes an area soul-less can be found in this thread. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9591


Then you say that your resort will offer heli skiing quality for $30/day, but the math doesn't work. The sheer numbers required to break even means that the easily accessible lines will be quite skied.

I think it is important to consider that our operating model, and the need for skier visits will be much different from traditional ski resorts. Also, the membership owner structure, which will include season pass/annual fees will help offset operating costs. The break even point will be much different than the industry norm. In the months to come, more of the finances will be presented. Then you guys can really sink your teeth into our illusions of grandeur :-D

You pay 5k for heli skiing because you get what you pay for. The same argument you used against squaw is easily applied against manitoba. BTW I looked at where you put those lifts and those lifts don't serve 10,000 acres, the majority of that 10,000 acres is hike to, and will be bc, I don't see what makes it special in that light considering the quality of bc around the rest of the major resorts closer to home.


The Chugach is the Super Bowl of skiing. There are few, if any other places on the planet, where you can ski 45+ degree sustained slopes in stable powder. Flutes, spines and other technical terrain found in Alaska are in a league of their own. Combine that with a generally stable maritime snowpack and the Chugach offers something extremely special to big mountain skiers. Within 2 hours of the backcountry access gate at 3,702', there is access to over 10,000 acres of world class terrain.

The "closer to home" areas, such as Jackson Hole, Silverton and Bridger Bowl, that do offer excellent lift-served backcountry access are training grounds for Alaska. Ask any expert level skier that has had at least 1 day of legit skiing in the Chugach, and they will tell you it's as good as it gets.

Will MRA areas attract many of the posters on this forum? No. But we do believe there is segment of the ski population whose needs are not currently being meet. With exception of Silverton, there are very few places in North America that provide lift access to big league terrain.

I would be interested in going there, but as an add on to an actual guided heli skiing trip. As a destination area it is bit too far, especially from the east coast, where it is far easier to reach europe's big mountains than Alaska's and for that matter cheaper. Again, those who live on the west coast who like that type of terrain can find it closer to home in the bc of many of the resorts around the country. I would also warn you that even though that segment of the market that you are targeting, though indeed growing, is not the bread and butter of any area, and for good reason. BTW Silverton's tix are $130+ a day, and they benefit from being a short ride from a major destination resort and town.

The great thing about the Manitoba is the amount of beginner and intermediate terrain. Within 2.5 hours, there is a population of 325,000. So our target market in the local community will be geared towards the family type skier as well as the big mountain and backcountry skier. We will also have a nordic trail and dog mushing, a big favorite up there.

BTW, we have concluded 4 community outreach meetings thus far, and the response has been been very positive. Folks love the idea of low impact surface lifts. It's important to remember that Alaskans are tougher than us from "the lower". So while some might think a surface lift will not appeal to beginners, that is not the case so much in the Last Frontier.

A Silverton's lift ticket is $49 unguided, or $139 with a guide.

 

[rfarren]

Actually I am. This former "Dirt Bag" has been able to keep his ski bumming lifestyle going 20 years later, even with 3 kids and a mortgage.

So this dirtbag lives in a dorm at Alta with 2 to 4 other people while working there in the winter? Ok, if you say so.

I'd like to speak a little more about this to make sure my position is clear. IMO, an annual season pass price of around $1,000 is very reasonably priced, and by no means "elistist". I ski close to 100 days at the resort, so for $10/day that's an excellent deal. My rants about the soul of mountain communities being eroded isn't due to a higher season pass price. In fact, at a recent Squaw passholders meeting, 17 of 20 passholders were in favor of restoring the old pass price, as we believe it would make for much smaller lines on good to excellent ski days.

My thoughts on what makes an area soul-less can be found in this thread. http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... =10&t=9591

Fair enough. I still don't think building a base village ruins soul. It just gives non-skiers things to do, which is great imho.

I think it is important to consider that our operating model, and the need for skier visits will be much different from traditional ski resorts. Also, the membership owner structure, which will include season pass/annual fees will help offset operating costs. The break even point will be much different than the industry norm. In the months to come, more of the finances will be presented. Then you guys can really sink your teeth into our illusions of grandeur :-D

I'll be interested in seeing it. I know that the gnarliest of terrain will be bc gate accessible, but how will that change your insurance costs? This question btw is not meant to be condescending in any way but is actually a legitimate question.

The Chugach is the Super Bowl of skiing. There are few, if any other places on the planet, where you can ski 45+ degree sustained slopes in stable powder. Flutes, spines and other technical terrain found in Alaska are in a league of their own. Combine that with a generally stable maritime snowpack and the Chugach offers something extremely special to big mountain skiers. Within 2 hours of the backcountry access gate at 3,702', there is access to over 10,000 acres of world class terrain.

The "closer to home" areas, such as Jackson Hole, Silverton and Bridger Bowl, that do offer excellent lift-served backcountry access are training grounds for Alaska. Ask any expert level skier that has had at least 1 day of legit skiing in the Chugach, and they will tell you it's as good as it gets.

This is a solid explanation and I'm happy to see it here. I will say however, if it is as good as advertised expect a lot of experts to crowd the slopes and lifts (lines build up really quickly on a surface lift). Also, do expect due to the ease of access that these lines will get skied out just like the best bc lines get skied out at other major areas. Don't forget that earlier you referenced Silverton as the only place in the lower 48 with that kind of terrain, which is patently false when you include bc, which you're doing for your own project. I also think you could be playing with fire if expect your only avalanche control to be a "generally safe maritime pack."

The great thing about the Manitoba is the amount of beginner and intermediate terrain. Within 2.5 hours, there is a population of 325,000. So our target market in the local community will be geared towards the family type skier as well as the big mountain and backcountry skier. We will also have a nordic trail and dog mushing, a big favorite up there.

I am correct that you will have groomers for the intermediate and beginner terrain? I think that's important, you really don't want beginners skiing powder, and trust me I've been following my wife's development over the last two years. If you don't have those as part of your business model, you should for the sake of our fledging love ones.

Now, not to burst your bubble on the population, but, Alyeska is far closer to Anchorage. I don't know it's skier numbers but I don't think they get too crowded, at least from what I've heard and seen. I know your lift tickets are only $30 but do you really think enough people are going to bypass Alyeska to teach their children and wives to ski on surface lifts? Especially when it's an extra hour+ from where they live. I would think the gas cost would offset the savings of the lift tickets. Perhaps, I'm wrong, but if I were you I wouldn't count on beginners and intermediates to be your bread and butter. You may very well end up being a winter paradise for expert skiers, but at that point don't you think it would be more fiscally prudent to just buy yourself a fleet of snowmobiles to ferry people up?

BTW, we have concluded 4 community outreach meetings thus far, and the response has been been very positive. Folks love the idea of low impact surface lifts. It's important to remember that Alaskans are tougher than us from "the lower". So while some might think a surface lift will not appeal to beginners, that is not the case so much in the Last Frontier.

Skiing is skiing in Alaska just like it is everywhere else. It's scary when you start regardless, and a chairlift makes that process easier. I wouldn't resort to platitudes about a population be tougher etc to defend this. IMHO I don't think the surface lifts for beginners is what will make or break your business. I do think, however, beginners will be far more likely to go to Alyeska to learn.

A Silverton's lift ticket is $49 unguided, or $139 with a guide.

Remember that Silverton is quite close to Telluride, and much of it's visits are of the tourist kind. I would imagine most people are going to want a guide when it comes to that kind of terrain. Are you planning on offering guides? If not, is that because the only terrain you speak of being unique and special exist beyond the gates at Manitoba?

 

[Geoff]

I am correct that you will have groomers for the intermediate and beginner terrain? I think that's important, you really don't want beginners skiing powder, and trust me I've been following my wife's development over the last two years. If you don't have those as part of your business model, you should for the sake of our fledging love ones.

Didn't I read earlier in this thread that with fat rocker skis, anybody can ski powder? You have an under-equiped wife. She should be part of the masses buying cheap Squaw passes and ripping up KT-22.

Now, not to burst your bubble on the population, but, Alyeska is far closer to Anchorage.

I would imagine that a very big slice of the local population is nonskiers. Think Ski-Doo and Polaris.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I would imagine that a very big slice of the local population is nonskiers. Think Ski-Doo and Polaris.

This is my concern. Alyeska seems awfully quiet to me, even with epic powder during Anchorage's spring break week on my first visit 4 years ago.

Silverton's unguided skiing is only permitted during shoulder seasons. Skiing is guided only during the core of the season Jan. 13 - Mar. 27.

I have expressed my opinion twice already that soulskier should stop selling his projects based upon uncontrolled backcountry. If he plans avy control as at Highlands Bowl he has some case, though it's going to expensive for 10,000 acres. Otherwise, as some of us have noted, many areas in the lower 48 and Canada could market themselves on the same basis. And I will be first in line to criticize them if they do.

 

[Marc_C]

This really isn't interesting any more.
Soulskier is simply far to easy to bait and reacts to every button push. He's still incredibly uninformed and ignorant of the Alta scene and it's local population (guess what? We all live in the valley - even 90% of the workers - there's very little employee housing at Alta), yet insists his own twisted view of reality is correct. His naivete and ill-informed idealistic optimism appears to have only a slim chance of success, but he's far too defensive to actually run the kind of ski operation of questionable viability he has in mind. And he should really stop talking about 10K acres being lift served - it ain't lift served terrain if you have to hike to it. And the hike there is significant.