Jay, VT: 03/18/06

riverc0il

New member
damn, i am spent. it was a great morning of skiing for damn sure. i was hitting stuff left and right that i thought i wouldn't be doing until next season after a more complete recovery from the injury was made. slight minor adjustments to my technique were required, most specifically my right hand pole plants and right hand turns, but no worries what so ever. i was definitely cautious on some of the lines and didn't try some of jay's harder glades, especially those that i have not been down before. okay, on to the trip report:

got to jay around 8am and they were already packing em' in like sardines at the stateside lodge. things didn't get really busy until i took my first break around 10am. actually, the first hour and a half of skiing was surprising uncrowded. but after 10am, the place was packed. jay was reporting two feet by thursday morning. today, the best i could find was one foot occasional untracked. the rest had either been tracked up, packed down, or blown away. and it took some looking to find those occasional one foot untracked, but when i found them it was grrrrrrreat!

started on the bon quad and took a warm up on the groomers down to the jet. the groomers were total CRAP much like i had suspected. blown clean of snow, with scraped down groomer tracks abundent and occasional ice and bare spots. time to head into the woods.

over on the jet, i wasted no time pointing my skis towards timbuktu. repeat. repeat. repeat. repeat. okay, that was my morning it was a really really fun morning :D felt SO great to be in the trees again. even though i was taking conservative lines. found some nice hits of pow, but it was going quickly. by 10am, the rest of new england seemed to have arrived at the jet so i headed over to the freezer to see how the other side of the mountain was doing.

windy and cold!!! the freezer lived up to its name and the unload area was a sheet of ice! i made my way down ullr's dream which was anything but. scarped and wind blown, how fun! revisited the trail of my injury location by heading into BBPG which was packed down, scraped, and nasty up top but pretty nice when it opened up down lower. LOTS of people in there, wow! people the freezer, the conditions, and the crowds, it just wasn't worth it. i headed by stateside and grabbed a lunch before returning to the jet.

the line was crazy. at one point, it looked like about 40-50 people were in the singles line! i paired up with another single and hoped in the regular line which seemed to move quicker during the ~10 minute wait. i figured timbuktu area had been getting hit quite hard with traffic, so i looked else where towards kitzbuehel and kitz woods. kitz woods had gotten pretty heavy traffic before my arrival, but i pretty much had the well packed down glade to myself. really nice where it opens up more down low. i traversed a few runs looking for nice slots and lines that retained some fresh stuff and found good turns and good snow. emptied out onto stateside glade which had really nice packed and loose pow on skier's left, i let out a "wooo hooo!!!!" as i picked up some exceleration and made some great quick turns on the lower pitched glade. sweet. i repeated that combo, sometimes hoping out onto the bumps of kitzbuehel and alternating my lines where i could find them.

great skiing for sure! definitely wasn't quite the two feet of untracked that was already tracked, but occasional fresh lines containing a few short turns of foot deep pow could be found if you looked for them. easier to find was plenty of packed pow in some trees, though the main routes through the glades were well scraped down in most places. my arm was really killing me by lunch, i pressed on until 1:30pm and decided i have the whole week off from work, why kill myself on the first day of the week? probably will head back up tomorrow for some more. it snow all morning and during noon time, but not much accululation. i am still feeling the chill from that wind.
 
one thing i forgot to mention, besides the packed lodge this was the only annoying factor of the afternoon: if you need to sideslip through the trees, you shouldn't be in there. period. i can't tell you how many times i was in the trees today and saw these big long sideslip marks on packed down snow. seriously!?!?! not just sliding around an obstacle, but 10-12 continuous vertical feet in an area that wasn't even that tight. c'mon!!!
 
no need to be jelous, NHPH. it was nothing last your last time up at jay, i am sure ;) it was still good though :D
 
rc,

glad to hear you're back on the boards!

I'll be at Jay next Thursday or Friday, I hope it snows.
 
I was up at Jay also for one of the biggest deception of the season:

1- Jay is so crowded now... I got there at 8H30-45 and was parked all the way at the end of the stateside parking! People who got there after 9H30 had to go home i guess because there was just no more parking!

2- Marketing: Yeah it snowed... we looked and found some stuff... nothing to stop and take pictures... 12in top... Maybe some 18in on the real big drifts... Also, most groomers were sheer ice and wind blown... Again, bad for tourists...

3- The North Troy police: This guy has been hunting for money for 304 years now... The idiots stops all Canadian coming in the North Troy village... There is a 25mph zone but before it's a state highway... of course people arrive fast but our bound to slow down for the right turn on the 100... but doesn't matter... so every day 5-6 "customers" come by and get a 200-300$ ticket for speeding... Jay Peak should do something about that... I wouldn't be a returning customer i were to get such a stupid ticket before going to Jay to spend hundreds of dollars with the family!

4- Tourists: Today was the last weekend of the Ontario school break. Tons of skiers that get out once or twice a year with 200cm straight skis from the 70s and rear entry boots skiing pogo style with knees strapped together... Always funny...

5- Just not enough snow to call it "The best skiing of the season" like Jay Peak stated on their website!

In all it was a good day... rode from 9 till 3:30... But i'm somehow disapointed that again, Jay "blew" everything out of proportion... I miss the old Jay...
 
yea, no pics austin, sorry. it was a crappy day for photos with the wind, cold, clouds, and snow. even if it was a good day, i didn't want to stop. not to mention, it hurts to dig into my inside pocket with my right arm after i have been skiing, bending gets tough after the work out. bigjay, i disagree with a alot if not all of what you say:

BigJay":3sct922g said:
I was up at Jay also for one of the biggest deception of the season:

1- Jay is so crowded now... I got there at 8H30-45 and was parked all the way at the end of the stateside parking! People who got there after 9H30 had to go home i guess because there was just no more parking!
dude, jay peak and stowe were the only mountains to get nailed by this storm. perhaps bolton and smuggs to a lesser extent, but jay got nailed and work spread quickly. so any skier in new england and probably south eastern canada worth their powder turns was at jay looking for the goods. not too mention jay took mrg up on offering cheap tickets to folks like me with mad cards and mad passes. jay was busy because it was one of the only games in town with good conditions.

2- Marketing: Yeah it snowed... we looked and found some stuff... nothing to stop and take pictures... 12in top... Maybe some 18in on the real big drifts... Also, most groomers were sheer ice and wind blown... Again, bad for tourists...
groomers definitely sucked but the woods were soooo good. not untracked powder good and those 12inches were tough to find, but it was great. folks that only ski groomers that get amped up for a "powder day" get what they deserve, they should feel disappointed.

3- The North Troy police: This guy has been hunting for money for 304 years now... The idiots stops all Canadian coming in the North Troy village... There is a 25mph zone but before it's a state highway... of course people arrive fast but our bound to slow down for the right turn on the 100... but doesn't matter... so every day 5-6 "customers" come by and get a 200-300$ ticket for speeding... Jay Peak should do something about that... I wouldn't be a returning customer i were to get such a stupid ticket before going to Jay to spend hundreds of dollars with the family!
quit your complaining and slow the heck down!!! 25mph limits are almost always town centers. i usually do 5mph plus on the speed limit, but i highly respect town centers and 25 limits. i fully support small towns nailing people doing 10 over in a small town 25mpg limit. also, i think it interesting that first you complain about crowds and then you suggest jay peak should do something to stop tickets to keep people coming back. it isn't jay peaks fault drivers are speeding! what is jay peak supposed to do? go to the town of troy and request the police stop enforcing the law? :shock:

4- Tourists: Today was the last weekend of the Ontario school break. Tons of skiers that get out once or twice a year with 200cm straight skis from the 70s and rear entry boots skiing pogo style with knees strapped together... Always funny...
who cares? good for them for enjoying skiing and getting out. who are we to judge? i once skied on 200cm straight skis and rear entries. i suspect most of us did at one point. ski your own ski. those "tourists" usually stay out of the woods any ways, so you only see them on the lifts. why make fun of someone for their equpiment? frankly, us hard core dedicated skiers are not the one's financing most of the industry, we should be thanking those tourists for subsidizing our fun! :lol:

5- Just not enough snow to call it "The best skiing of the season" like Jay Peak stated on their website!
yesterday definitely wasn't the best skiing of the season for me personally, but for a lot of people, it may have been. who knows. maybe they meant the week in general? i am sure thursday definitely would have qualified and friday maybe. marketing departments from every ski area blow every major storm out of proportion, that is why i don't believe the hype.
 
though i will admit, as much as i like to ignore marketing, i gotta call jay peak out on today's report... they are reporting the snow conditions as "powder, packed powder" which is an out and out lie. there is hardly any powder left inside the resort proper. by 1:30 it was getting tough finding patches even off the official trail network. packed powder in the trees maybe, but the groomers were machine groomed frozen gran. i agree with ya about the marketing issues bigjay, but like i said, you gotta ignore em' and know in your gut what is really out there. and read no bull reports like these!

thank goodness for terrible snow reports and bad marketing. seems like forums like this were naturally the development of people receiving lots of bull from the ski areas.
 
Steve, Thanks for the reports , should be better today with crowds as Saturday is the day that everyone heads out on . I guess you have to expect big crowds as Jay is the only eastern area offering new snow so anything above FG is going to draw the crowds . noticed that the bus Jay has from Montreal every weekend sold out for both days this weekend within hours of the snow announcements even with a no refund policy. Now out to ski Laurentian Granular .
 
@Rivercoil:

I don't know if you've seen Jay Peak change over the years since a marketing plan has been developped... Parking lots are full and it's been 2-3 years that they've been saying their going to build new ones or expends the ones they have... Also, it's because of "marketing" that they advertise the "best conditions of the year" when the conditions are totally average...

Wouldn't you be pissed after leaving from NYC and doing the 6-8 hours on the road to get to a mountain that advertise as "Powder / Packed Powder" and get to a hill that is completely wind blown? I got used to the weather at Jay... after riding there for 20-something years, i know the mountain pretty well... Living 15min away from the mountain doesn't bother me that much if conditions are not as advertised... but again, i guess this is why people come to this site... because the users here tell it like it is... I'm normally very positive about Jay, check out my other reports this season!

And i do think that the police in North Troy are pushing it... but don't worry about me, i drive a 10mph in the village... Even tough 25mph is barely moving, i prefer to "play the game" and make it seems even more rediculous then it already is! And just so you know, Jay Peak has been putting pressure on the North Troy Sheriff for a couple of years now... they even had a note on their website to be careful about the idiot!

Just look back at the first weekend of march... Jay got pounded with snow... You could get reborts on BigLines.com, TGR, FTO and others with people getting face shots one after another... that was an epic week-end and it was the best skiing of the season... Try and find one good report of this weekend... You won't see any faceshots and rocking videos because there wasn't that much snow... I still enjoyed my time spent on Corona Highway and in Spudz... Good snow... nothing to get the camera out... and obviously deep down you kind of felt the same because you don't have pictures either... Ah well, in fact, i got one... i'll post it later...
 
word bigjay, i hear ya. i had a hard time getting my rediculously small saturn coupe out of the parking lot because they packed it so full! :shock: maybe they should be building parking lots instead of golf courses ;)

i don't go back far with jay, my first time there was a mere four years ago, so i don't know the history of the marketing issue of which you speak. i do remember reading about the issue here on FTO though. regarding the drive from NYC... all i can say is buyer beware. you gotta get to know the mountains and get to know the snow reporting bias before you decided where to go. i knew exactly what i was going to get at jay. if anything, i was surprised to find any untracked boot deep, but i did. if jay's marketing is pushing the envelope too much, then people will realize they have been had and won't make that long drive again next time jay cries wolf. if you think the crowds and parking lot issue is bad, i would think you would be all for hyped snow reports to piss off the weekend warriors ;)

seriously though, i am sure the skiing was out of this world on thursday and probably fantastic on friday as well. best of the season? not so much by saturday, but every ski area says that days after they get a dump that no one else does. it is too bad that the non-hardcore skiers and riders that don't do their research and only go out a few times a year get conned by hype when those that study the mountains and understand skier patterns and their effects on the snow can better predict what conditions should be like. it is the benefit of committing to the sport i guess. over exagerated reports certainly don't help individual ski areas nor the industry as a whole, but it only seems to get worse from most areas. and the areas that have really good reporting (like mrg) don't tend to get those weekend wet-behind-the-ears vacationers as much. like i said, buyer beware. doesn't effect me, i know the game as do you. and the people that don't know the game gotta do their research. it is just like reading the fine print.

good for jay if they put up a warning about the troy patrol, shows they are caring about their customers at least on that front. though they shouldn't need jay to tell them to do the speed limit when going through small town VT. in that case, instead of buyer beware it would be drive beware.
 
after a day off to rest the tricep muscles and let some inflamation cool off, i am back at jay tomorrow (monday) if any one is interested. they are reporting 4-6" today and say as of 4:30 it is possitively dumping. the radar loop on intellicast seems to agree with that assessment. they have some nice pics of the face on their photo of the day page! never been down the face, might have to change that tomorrow. think i'll be starting tram side and pushing for the first tram. lemme know if you'll be there too.
 
I was there Fri, Sat and today. Friday was definately better than Sat. But today was really good. There was 6" new this morning and it snow pretty good all day and was snowing when we left. We skied some areas with thigh deep today....off the mountain. Just needed to do a little searching. All days were good, just needed to stay away from center of mountain.
 
Very, very interesting thread you guys have going on here!

As a Stowe skier, I can completely relate to what the conditions were like at Jay.

It did snow 18" on Wed and Thurs. Thursday was over the head in parts.

Check out this video clip of myself:
http://www.uvm.edu/~sbraaten/Stowe%2005 ... 20Food.MOV

I'm 6'2" and had no problem getting true face shots all day...it was just one of those "floater" days where you dont even really need to turn, just surf down through all the powder. However, the wind took some areas down to glare ice...the trails were not all that impressive. The snow was just too light and fluffy for it to stay on the trails. The ice is not the normal "ice"...its blue-ish yellow ICE. Groomers can't even cut into this stuff. So the powder leaves the trails and goes elsewhere.

So here's the problem: the northern resorts have been marketing the fresh snow. It did fall but its not on the trails most tourists ski. The groomers flat out sucked and most bump runs were horrendous. Only sheltered, narrow trails held any snow but when you found that snow, it was DEEP. The snow doesn't just disappear...it has to end up somewhere. For me, Thursday was a top 5 day of the year, possibly top 3, and I've skied 50-60 days so far. By Saturday, the woods were still good but certainly not great and that 18" of snow settled down to 8" once the air left it. So on Saturday when everyone shows up, we've got 8" in the woods in the untracked area, and groomers that flat out suck because you cant even get a razor blade into them. So you've got one of the biggest deceptions of the season.

It has happened a lot this winter. I've skied five true powder days this winter with 12-24" of fresh snow pretty much overnight. Within 2-3 days, the time required for most of the general public to make plans, call in sick, and drive to the mountain...the snow conditions are nothing past average, or they've even been horrible as it has rained 36 hrs after a big dump.

Plus, without a major nor'easter to dump heavier, dense snow, it has been 2 feet of dust, rain, 2 feet of dust, rain, etc. Meaning you HAVE to be there either the day of the dump or the day after.

For tourists, that usually means missing out.

BIG JAY, you mention the first week of March had a ton of information, pictures, trip reports and the likes on sites like this one, TGR, and Biglines. The storm hit on a Friday, Friday night, and most of Saturday. It was a big storm of 20-30", yes, but it fell on a weekend when everyone was there. Had that happened on a Tuesday, you wouldn't have seen a quarter of those reports. Had Wednesday night's dump of 12-24" fallen on Friday night into Saturday (48hrs later) it would have been a COMPLETELY different senario...and everyone would've been posting reports, pictures, videos and stuff like that. I was at Stowe on Thursday and to me, it was almost better than the early March weekend storm because no one was there and we could ski thigh deep powder all day long.

Take a look at Jay Peak's video clips from Thursday and tell me that doesn't look sweet.

Its all about timing.
 
I agree with powderfreak. It was also one of my top 3 of the year. My Utah trip probably the only one better. Sunday we had face shots all day at Jay. We were having such a blast, no time for pictures
 
Looks like its good enough to me to be irrational and leave NYC for Jay at midnight tonight..... I hope it keeps snowing! How are/were the conditions today as compared to yesterday?

Sven
 
seriously though, i am sure the skiing was out of this world on thursday and probably fantastic on friday as well. best of the season? not so much by saturday,

That's about they way I saw and heard it.

I was there on Friday and Saturday and met some foks who were in for the week. Wednesday was good+, Thursday stellar, and Friday very good. They said on Thursday the snow was mid-calf on most groomed trails, which got packed down for Friday. There was still enough snow on Friday for instructors to bring classes of 7-8 year olds down the Face Chute : 8) After slugging out the rain on Monday and Tuesday the folks who were left had almost no lines for Wed. and Thursday. I felt the crowd Friday was pretty light and never waited long at a lift, but they said it was about twice as busy as Thursday. Great for them, they deserved it.

About 60% of the people I talked to on the lifts Friday were skiing glades, and they were a happy bunch. More than a few were sick from work but seemed to revive once they got into the glades.

I was with the kids doing groomers and only beginner glade areas like Bushwacker, Stateside, some Hells. On Friday the entrance to many groomers was icy but once you were in there was enough snow to have lotsa fun. You did have to pick and choose the best though, as some were blown worse than others. My girl turned into a glades monster, chasing untracked areas and popping off runs into the bush until I shooed her to a lift!

Unfortunately for everyone who flocked there on Saturday, there was very little snow overnight from Friday. From the Freezer on Friday I was watching guys dip in to lay fresh tracks from Alligator Alley around the entrance to Deliverance. But on Saturday morning those tracks were still there, and barely had any snow in them. :?

Saturday you needed a strategy for hill managment to find snow and avoid lines. Some groomers were good (Derrick Hotshot in the AM) , others bad from the get go (Wiggle). The Vermonter was out of the wind and pretty decent, as was JFK after the first drop. The tram line was 2-3 trams all day, and the Jet triple got very busy at times, but the Flyer was always short - if you were bundled for the ride and could handle the last few minutes like my 13 year old first year skier daughter :wink:

As Saturday went on, the combo of lots of people and high winds had the top of the mountain icing up pretty good. eg. The top blue square part of Green Mountain boys was tougher than the bottom diamond because the top was icing up. Basically, if you could get runs not wind blasted the snow was allright.

Expecations have to be moderated as well. This is mid-March right on the heels of several days of rain that saturated hills. I went to a local hill on the 15th after the temperature turned to below freezing, with next to no snow, and it was like skiing on cast iron washboard. Very tough stuff to accumulate snow on, and compared to that Jay was great. Where runs did ice up in spots, usually there was at least enough snow to slalom around the bad spots. At the end of the day, we changed plans to ski somewhere else because Jay was the only place with snow in our travel zone.
 
From Jay Peak's snowreport:

Jay Peak snow report

SPEED TRAP IN NORTH TROY If you're travelling to the mountain from Quebec or Ontario and crossing at the Highwater/North Troy border - watch your speed as you pass through the village. There is almost always a speed trap in the 25mph zone. (For our Canadian friends, 25mph = 40km.)

So i'm not the only one of thinks this is Bull****!

Here's Jay Peak "official" point of vue on their website forum:

TJ--thanks for your thoughts and I don't disagree that egregious speeders should be punished, but this guy is whacking folks doing 27 in a 25 which is excessive. He also has acted inappropriately toward 'offenders' and we've taken that up with town officials. Speeding protocols aren't put into place to 'help general revenue'. The spirit here is intended to curb accidents which we're all for but what is happening is inappropriate. If anything, you're going to see more notification from us, not less.
 
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