New to the East

[Marc_C]

I don't remember getting a feel for the OP regarding backcountry/AT. If you lack the gear/knowledge/or inclination, that eliminates a lot of the terrain you're talking about.

it was mentioned that the east didn't offer wide open terrain similar to what's found in locations out west. i simply offered that there is in fact big vert wide open alpine terrain in the east where there is excellent powder skiing to be had. the lack of gear/knowledge/or inclanation, does not eliminate the terrain at all. it's still there and always will be. for the record, i would not live here for the resort skiing alone. the prezzies and the like make all of my ski dreams come true for up to 8 months of the year.

You're missing the point - look at it from the OP perspective. It's not that the east doesn't have that kind of terrain, but if he doesn't do backcountry/AT for whatever reason or simply just wants lift-served, then those reasons effectively eliminate the terrain for him.

 

[icelanticskier]

You're missing the point - look at it from the OP perspective. It's not that the east doesn't have that kind of terrain, but if he doesn't do backcountry/AT for whatever reason or simply just wants lift-served, then those reasons effectively eliminate the terrain for him.

oh mahk!

i'm not missing the point, just answering to some simple words not taking into account any meaning 8-[ . i do look at it from the OP perspective. if i weren't into bc/at and just wanted lift served (and lived in nyc :shock: ), i'd be flying out west to ski probably 100% of the time. i mean, c'mon jump on a plane and in less time than it takes to get to blowkemo, yer in mormon country.

rog

 

[rfarren]

if i weren't into bc/at and just wanted lift served (and lived in nyc :shock: ), i'd be flying out west to ski probably 100% of the time. i mean, c'mon jump on a plane and in less time than it takes to get to blowkemo, yer in mormon country.

Pretty much...

The whites are a serious haul from the city, so if your into that kind of terrain, whether you earn your turns or not, hopping on a plane is a better option. The only problem with hopping on a plane is all these extra baggage charges/surcharges. :x

Again, skiing from NYC is not that bad, and can often be quite rewarding. If you can make it to places like Whiteface, Jay, Gore, etc, the EC can leave you really freaking happy. One of my best days all time was at Bolton Valley, where I and three other guys had the half the mountain open to us with 23 inches of untouched. I never crossed a track. The EC is not worse than out west, but different. Besides, if you live in NYC you should have a really fun time as the city itself has so much to offer. Is the skiing as convenient as some other cities? No, but what it lacks in skiing it makes up in spades in culture and urban activities.

 

[skibum4ever]

Hey msp, congratulations on becoming a "New Yawker".

The best lobster roll we ever had was in Jimmy's of Savin Rock - pure warm lobster meat in a hot dog bun drenched in butter - heavenly! I understand that since then it has gone down in quality and way up in price. I have read that the lobster roll drenched in butter began in Savin Rock, and that Connecticut is the home to the lobster roll with butter, rather than mayo. Seafood in the east is the best, not to mention pizza.

Now, you have to learn to say "Toity poiple boids, poiched on a coib, choipin and boipin and eatin doity woims." :shock: (Thiry purple birds, perched on a curb, chirping and burping and eating dirty worms) . Perhaps one of you real New Yawkers could provide a better phonetic spelling. \/

It's been almost 30 years and we were low intermediates or worse at that point, but I seem to recall that Stove and Waterville Valley were our favorite mountains. I can even remember a couple of powder days at Hunter Mountain, when we were fortunate enough to be staying at the slopes, and no one could get there from NYC. =D> Note: Many of the slopes at Hunter are named for highways (such as the Belt Pkwy.), with good reason. I'm sure all the areas have grown and changed a lot. I look forward to your TRs next winter.

Lots of luck. :wink:

 

[skibum4ever]

I'm calling BS on this... it's Crocker trolling from China.

Has Tony posted yet anywhere about his trip? That's what I checked in to look for, but have not found. :-({|=

 

[J.Spin]

Guys... I'm new to this board, but I don't get it. Here's a guy who is relocating from Mammoth Lakes to the North East and is asking for some advise. I'm not dissing the East Coast experience, I grew up here, but now I ski equal time between the NE and Wyoming / Utah and have skied Mammoth and can tell you that they are two completely different experiences. I never find the need to have anything wider than 100mm wide in my East Coast quiver…

Our new West Coast friend will have a great experience on the East, just a different one.

I guess I missed this message from this morning, but I figured I’d respond at this point to clarify my comments a bit. In this thread’s initial post, moresnowplease said “…I plan to do most of my skiing in the East this season due to budget and such.” And, even though he indicated “I will prolly make it back out to Mammoth a couple times due to the fact i still have my MVP season pass…”, it didn’t sound like he was going to have the money to fly off to big storms at the drop of a hat. He also asked specifically about powder days in the east, so I figured that I would fill him in. I just thought it was strange to recommend leaving the powder skis at home or all the way across the country, when, assuming he could overcome some moderate travel constraints, he could likely get in on a lot more powder around here.

If you are really into powder, certainly stick around on this board (and be sure to monitor SkiVT-L), because based on your comments you haven’t experienced everything that the Northeast has to offer in terms of powder skiing. Remember, the 300+ inches of annual snowfall at the Northern Vermont resorts is on par with the bulk of the Utah ski areas outside the Cottonwood Canyons, all the Wyoming ski areas except Targhee and Jackson, most of Colorado, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico, etc. I think that was part of Patrick’s point in mentioning Northern Vermont in his post in this thread. I don’t think there’s much argument about the availability of more open ski terrain and reliability of everyday snow conditions in many areas of the Western U.S., but when it comes to the amount of snowfall/powder, there are ski areas right here in the Northeast that are superior to many resorts in the regions I mentioned above. If you’ve been coming out for the big days around here and haven’t felt the desire to use fat skis, then I’d argue that there are not going to be that many days anywhere that you would really want them. You might just have different preferences on ski width like icelantic, who mentioned that he’s happy sticking with a midfat-style ski throughout the country on various conditions. I won’t deny that I notice the general decrease in face shots as I get on wider skis, but I really enjoy the feel of a pair of fats in powder, and the added floatation is great for staying off the subsurface. I still have the same alpine fat skis that I did when we used to live in Montana, and with our local ski area here (Bolton Valley) receiving the same 300 inches of annual snowfall as our local ski area out there (Lost Trail Powder Mountain) I’d say that I pull them out just as often (barring the larger amount of time spent on my Telemark skis in the past couple of seasons here in Vermont).

I admit to my ignorance about many of the difficulties in attempting to ski the Northeast while being based in NYC. It sounds like it can be very arduous, but even being restricted to weekends alone, I’d say that friends of mine in the Boston area are far more inhibited by their own schedules than lack of snow in terms of nailing plenty of excellent powder days. I follow the weather forecasts very closely, and when a good storm is imminent, I give them the word. If their schedules are open, they come up and it’s usually powder city. In my many years of experience skiing around here, unless one is going to restrict themselves to exclusively marked runs, they should be able to ski untracked powder all day every powder day with a little searching and traversing, even at the busiest resorts. At the resorts with less relative traffic like Sugarbush, Bolton Valley, etc., options for lift-served untracked powder can go on for several days. I think there’s still a lot of disbelief about the ski conditions we often get up here, because the casual skier that might come up from the city for a weekend may end up finding crowds and bulletproof conditions left over from a recent thaw. It doesn’t take too many of those experiences to get people thinking “Hey, it’s the Northeast, that’s just the way the skiing is.” Over the past 10-15 years, I think the internet and availability of digital cameras has really started to open people’s eyes to just how good the powder skiing gets around here, and the improvements in snow report availability and weather forecasts allow anyone to cherry pick the weekends that are going to be prime if they are following things closely. But, even with all that, we still have casual skiing friends come up and get blown away by the skiing because they’ve never experienced anything like it. Hopefully both you guys (Bluebird and moresnow) can get up here and have some great experiences. With a nod to the internet, I’ll finish with some deep thoughts from the past season up at Bolton as we look forward to ’09-‘10… I should point out that all but one of the days pictured below are weekend powder days from a fairly average season (318 inches of snow through the first week of April). That's powder that should be relatively accessible even for folks in the city working standard hours. And then of course there are the holidays and weekdays...

November

December

January

February

-J

 

[Admin]

I'm calling BS on this... it's Crocker trolling from China.

Has Tony posted yet anywhere about his trip? That's what I checked in to look for, but have not found. :-({|=

Not yet. I just noticed that this evening I received the first email communication from him since the phone call I got from LAX as he was heading out, but I haven't yet given it a proper reply as I'm dealing with the Outdoor Retailer trade show this week. He's still at sea.

And on a similar extra-terrestrial note I watched the space shutte/station combo blaze a path across the Utah sky tonight. Way cool and orders of magnitude brighter than any satellite I've ever seen.

 

[icelanticskier]

nice shots J! that kid's a pow hound!

i added a little vid from mt washington this past feb 19th at gulf of slides. the vid only captures the lower portion of the 1000 foot vert gully. the storm was just winding down and in all about 20inches had fallen. per usual, donny and i were the only ones up there to enjoy the deep. after we did 3 laps of refill untracked on the 2000 vert GOS trail, we ventured up to the goods. the goods were very, very good. 86mm underfoot felt just fine in my book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb7zMIFN ... ture=email

rog

 

[flyover]

Everybody has their own ski preferences, but I'd at least bring the powder skis and give them a shot on the right days.

Most winters, I get in at least one trip to the Mad River Valley and one trip to SLC. My responsibilities on the home front kept my (downhill) ski day count pretty low this past winter. By pure luck, however, I scored several powder days between my VT and UT trips. My two best powder days of the season were December 20, 2008, at MRG and March 9, 2009, at Snowbasin.

I'm currently freeheeling a righteous quiver of one: a 4 year old pair of BD Crossbows. Great skis for steep, technical skiing (and therefore perfect for much of MRG/Sugarbush a lot of the time), but hardly ideal for powder. In fact, I've decided it is time to add a pair of something more powder-appropriate to the quiver this season.

Anyway, if I could have skied a pair of fatties on only one of the days mentioned above, for all the reasons already articulated by J. Spin, I would have preferred to have had the powder skis at MRG.

 

[icelanticskier]

man flyover! minnesota? go west, go east, go wherever! now that's access! december 20 huh? that must've been a saturday. i skied cannon on monday the 22nd in an additional 20 inches of fresh on top of the dump that hit on the 20th. even on x-mas eve day, the 24th, the day it was supposed to be raining, riv and i hit up 6-8 more inches of fresh at cannon. ya, we get some good snow out here. sometimes early, sometimes late, and other times all along the way.

rog

 

[flyover]

Ooops. Got the date wrong! It was Sunday the 21st. We flew in Saturday night in a howling storm. I was impressed they were landing planes at BTV at all. The drive from there to the Valley was pretty hairy, but it was worth it to be near the front of the line for the single chair with 16-20 inches of fresh. The skiing was great from then all the way through Christmas eve. The thaw was just hitting maybe a couple hundred vert above the basebox when we got off the mountain at about 3 p.m. to prepare for the evening's festivities.

 

[Bluebird Day]

:dead horse:

I agree whole heartedly that Jay is in a league of its own on the East Coast. Huge powder days that rival anything out West. But it is 12 hours from NYC. I am still a believer that it is cheaper to find a flight out of Newark, NJ (Delta 1044) on Thursday 5:38p and get to SLC direct by 8:30pm. Take the shuttle to Midvale Comfort Inn ($83 per night including breakfast) and take the bus up to Alta and ski for $40. In the time it takes to get to SLC, you'll be cruising through Rutland w/ 4 hours to go till Jay. Jay is great for Northern Vermonters and Canadians, but it's a haul for our friend in NYC.

 

[jasoncapecod]

But it is 12 hours from NYC.

on a scooter...

 

[jamesdeluxe]

As someone who skied 25+ days a season while living in NYC (six years based out of Park Slope, Brooklyn), I can say that it’s hardly an optimum situation for a skier, but it is doable. Here are four wrong-headed clichés I had to disabuse yourself of:

I Want To Do All My Skiing Out West
Due to the direct flights everywhere, the two-hour difference in our favor (allows you to ski a good portion of the arriving and departing days in Utah), and the fact that the closest ski areas (third-tier EC hills by most people’s standards) are two hours away, some will claim that you may as well do all of your skiing out west. Unless you’ve got lots of discretionary income, unlimited frequent flyer awards (that allow you to storm chase by booking a flight a day or two before departure) and a completely flexible work schedule, it’s unreasonable to expect that you’ll do all your skiing out west. A more realistic prospect is how I split my annual ski days: 65-70% in the northeast and 30-35% in the West or the Alps.

If I Have To Ski In The Northeast, I’m Only Going Do It In Northern VT
A nice goal, but once again, unless money isn’t an issue, and you’ve got a completely flexible work schedule to drive five-ish hours in each direction, not always realistic. Sometimes you’ll only have time to go to southern VT or the southern ADKs. Many will disagree with me, but the Catskills (1,400-1,600 verts), at two hours away, while not anyone’s idea of ski paradise, are a relatively cheap daytrip and, in my book, better than staying home. While not a frequent event, decent powder days can happen at Belleayre and Plattekill in the western Catskills and the trees at both are great. Hardcores will say that they’d rather stay home than go there, so I guess that’s their prerogative. At the very least, you can consider them as a gym visit to work on your groomer or bump steeze in between trips to more high-profile mountains.

I Won’t Need A Car
There are ski buses to the Catskills and southern VT, but those should only be used as a last-resort desperation move. Everyone else has mentioned the micro-climates here and the significance of flexibility – sometimes a storm will hit the Adirondacks, sometimes northern VT, sometimes the Catskills and southern New England. Not having a car can be the difference between ice and powder. And it’s not only a winter thing… mountain biking, hiking, and the ocean aren’t that far away, and you’ll lose your mind during the warm weather if you can’t get out of town.

I Want To Live In Manhattan
Since I’ve already explained why you need a car, unless money isn’t an issue and you can afford a private parking space, living in one of the other boroughs is a necessity. Alternate-side parking rules mean that you’ll need to move your car twice a week, less if it’s a holiday week. Parking on the street in NYC is an art that needs to be mastered quickly (google it). Buy an inexpensive used car, as it’ll get bumped up and scratched. Another tip: register the car in a county outside the city or you’ll pay sky-high insurance rates.

 

[Bluebird Day]

Obviously, the Vermonters on this thread have never tried driving from Midtown NYC to Danbury CT... That can take 4 hours alone, not mention the additional 8 to Jay. Rush hour in Burlington, VT is 5-5:15, right. You guys are stubborn Yankees, I'll give you that.

 

[Patrick]

But it is 12 hours from NYC.

on a scooter...

Haven't driven NYC-Jay, but unless you really get lost and you can't ask for direction, that would seem unlikely.

I agree whole heartedly that Jay is in a league of its own on the East Coast. Huge powder days that rival anything out West.

No it's not. When a storm is about to hit NVT, Jay is generally is not in my top 3 destinations.

I am still a believer that it is cheaper to find a flight out of Newark, NJ (Delta 1044) on Thursday 5:38p and get to SLC direct by 8:30pm. (...)In the time it takes to get to SLC, you'll be cruising through Rutland w/ 4 hours to go till Jay.

12 hours to Jay, now 4 hours from Rutland to Jay. You can make half way between Montreal and Ottawa from Rutland in 4 hours. :roll: Google has it down to 6.5 hours.

Okay Marc, how long those it take to get to the airport, park the car, check the luggage? At what time do you "really" need to get at the airport to get on the 5:38pm flight? How long to get out of the airport and make it to the slopes? I would say the time between New York home and the slopes at Alta to be probably pretty close to home to Jay.

Jay is great for Northern Vermonters and Canadians, but it's a haul for our friend in NYC.

It is a haul, but there are other destinations that offer similar goods which would be closer.

 

[Marc_C]

I Want To Live In Manhattan
Since I’ve already explained why you need a car, unless money isn’t an issue and you can afford a private parking space, living in one of the other boroughs is a necessity. Alternate-side parking rules mean that you’ll need to move your car twice a week, less if it’s a holiday week. Parking on the street in NYC is an art that needs to be mastered quickly (google it). Buy an inexpensive used car, as it’ll get bumped up and scratched. Another tip: register the car in a county outside the city or you’ll pay sky-high insurance rates.

Out of curiosity, what does insurance and garage spot cost these days for Manhattan? I found it breath-taking 20 years ago when friends who lived on Park West around 80th dropped some figures.

 

[rfarren]

:dead horse:

But it is 12 hours from NYC.

No it's not.

Jay is in a league of its own on the East Coast.

No, not really. Plenty of places up there get a lot of snow.

Jay is great for Northern Vermonters and Canadians, but it's a haul for our friend in NYC.

Yes, it is a haul. As a result you have to treat as a bit more than a "local" hill. When you go to Jay or Stowe, or any of the N'VT resorts, you turn the trip into a road trip. You stay in B&B's, or Burlington. You stop at the Ben and Jerry's factory. You try lots of different maple syrup. You enjoy the little towns that VT has to offer.

As someone who skied 25+ days a season while living in NYC (six years based out of Park Slope, Brooklyn), I can say that it’s hardly an optimum situation for a skier, but it is doable. Here are four wrong-headed clichés I had to disabuse yourself of:

I Want To Do All My Skiing Out West
Due to the direct flights everywhere, the two-hour difference in our favor (allows you to ski a good portion of the arriving and departing days in Utah), and the fact that the closest ski areas (third-tier EC hills by most people’s standards) are two hours away, some will claim that you may as well do all of your skiing out west. Unless you’ve got lots of discretionary income, unlimited frequent flyer awards (that allow you to storm chase by booking a flight a day or two before departure) and a completely flexible work schedule, it’s unreasonable to expect that you’ll do all your skiing out west. A more realistic prospect is how I split my annual ski days: 65-70% in the northeast and 30-35% in the West or the Alps.

If I Have To Ski In The Northeast, I’m Only Going Do It In Northern VT
A nice goal, but once again, unless money isn’t an issue, and you’ve got a completely flexible work schedule to drive five-ish hours in each direction, not always realistic. Sometimes you’ll only have time to go to southern VT or the southern ADKs. Many will disagree with me, but the Catskills (1,400-1,600 verts), at two hours away, while not anyone’s idea of ski paradise, are a relatively cheap daytrip and, in my book, better than staying home. While not a frequent event, decent powder days can happen at Belleayre and Plattekill in the western Catskills and the trees at both are great. Hardcores will say that they’d rather stay home than go there, so I guess that’s their prerogative. At the very least, you can consider them as a gym visit to work on your groomer or bump steeze in between trips to more high-profile mountains.

I Won’t Need A Car
There are ski buses to the Catskills and southern VT, but those should only be used as a last-resort desperation move. Everyone else has mentioned the micro-climates here and the significance of flexibility – sometimes a storm will hit the Adirondacks, sometimes northern VT, sometimes the Catskills and southern New England. Not having a car can be the difference between ice and powder. And it’s not only a winter thing… mountain biking, hiking, and the ocean aren’t that far away, and you’ll lose your mind during the warm weather if you can’t get out of town.

I Want To Live In Manhattan
Since I’ve already explained why you need a car, unless money isn’t an issue and you can afford a private parking space, living in one of the other boroughs is a necessity. Alternate-side parking rules mean that you’ll need to move your car twice a week, less if it’s a holiday week. Parking on the street in NYC is an art that needs to be mastered quickly (google it). Buy an inexpensive used car, as it’ll get bumped up and scratched. Another tip: register the car in a county outside the city or you’ll pay sky-high insurance rates.

Yes, I agree with everything James just said.

 

[rfarren]

Out of curiosity, what does insurance and garage spot cost these days for Manhattan? I found it breath-taking 20 years ago when friends who lived on Park West around 80th dropped some figures.

$300-$600 a month on a garage spot in Manhattan. Insurance with a good record is probably around $120-$200 a month. Although, that depends on the type of insurance, and type of car.

 

[Patrick]

Alternate-side parking rules mean that you’ll need to move your car twice a week, less if it’s a holiday week. Parking on the street in NYC is an art that needs to be mastered quickly.

Another thing that Montreal has in common with New York. No turning on red, bagels and now...alternate street parking. :mrgreen: All kidding aside, wonder if frequent ski bus/club exist also? When I was a pre-16 teen (ie. no DL), I would take public transit and bus it to ski areas. 30 years ago, they were buses everyday for the Laurentians, Tremblant, Jay and Smuggs from a downtown hotel + on weekend you had 1-2 ski clubs that were going to alternate visits ski areas from Killington to Quebec City. I know there is still one bus company/ski club/ski Express that does this in Montreal...visiting different ski areas every weekend. It's not impossible that a similar service/club exists in NYC.