New to the East

[rfarren]

From New York, you're lucky to make it to Killington before midnight if you leave at 7:00. The traffic is worse and it's an extra 100 miles with 50 miles of secondary roads. Everybody seems to have a radar detector and drive at max speed whenever possible just to make it into bed early enough to not be a piece of crap the next morning. The extra drive time to the Mad River Valley, Stowe, and Jay Peak is simply out of the question if you're doing it every weekend.

That is why I started going to Whiteface. Whiteface takes about the same time as it takes to head to Killington. However, we like the town at whiteface a whole bunch more, and I believe the lift tickets are cheaper.

If you left NYC at 7:00, and the traffic was miserable you would arrive at Killington 11:30ish.

 

[Marc_C]

The Utards who bought the place managed to chase a big slice of the customers away. I guess it's a Utah thing where you act out of ignorance of local conditions, right M1?

Although based in Utah, I have no idea if the C-level and decision making people at Powdr are native Utahans or transplants. If native and of the dominant culture (how's that for a local code phrase?) then we can make a good argument that rather than "...acting out of ignorance of local conditions...", it's more a sense of entitlement and a "we know what's best, just trust us" attitude.

Why don't you share with us the last time you skied at Killington?

At one time I skied Kmart fairly often and some of my earlier ski experiences were there. From central CT, it was an easier drive than northern VT, had much more of a big mountain feel and more interesting terrain than the southern VT areas, and was just beyond the tipping point day-trip distance/drive time. During my initial ski seasons, which were usually only ~15 days, maybe 33% of those days were at Kmart.

Over time I grew to really dislike the place, for a variety of reasons. Most notably the ever increasing crowds, an increasing level of rudeness and attitude on the hill, increasing difficulty at getting a table for dinner, the haphazard trail network (where there seems to be a major intersection every 50 - 100 yards), and certain trails that always generated major human carnage. So trips became less and less frequent and avoided weekends, eventually dwindling to maybe a couple of Fridays a season. Last time I went was probably circa 1998 (two seasons before moving to Utah), although I don't quite see how that is germane. Yes, while the crowds - my major reason for despising the place - may have abated some only recently, the other factors remain. Should I ever face the devastating misfortune of having to move back to the northeast, I strongly doubt I would spend any time at Killington. It will still be overrun with folks from NYC and Boston.
8) :stir:

 

[icelanticskier]

man,

driving from from NYC to ski doesn't seem all that bad to me. for 5 winters from 2001-2002 till 2006-2007 after moving back from utah, i lived on cape cod, and let me tell ya, not only did i have to drive at least 3.5 hours (to loon), or 4-6 hours to get any where else, i did it every single week for 2-3 days from mid november till at least june 1st for mt washington. mind you, i was skiing on wed/thurs only and never a weekend, so i avoided all of the w/e driving bull$hit. boston did limit me as to when i could leave the cape to head north (6:30pm), and when i'd leave the hill to come home (5:00pm). i did have it dialed. at least from NYC you can drive to some good hills at 2 hours away verses living on the cape, the closest hill which offered very limiting terrain and vert of 1000ft was wachusett. now portsmouth is much better, but i still have to drive a solid 2 hours to loon or wildcat and 3.5 to stowe or the loaf. funny that i chose to live in an area of nh that is still as far from medium hills as NYC. even more funny that i skied 119 days this season. can you say drive baby drive? ah well, at least from here i can score storms wherever they may land, north or south without feeling like i'm going the wrong way.

so living on the cape i probably put at least an extra 16,000+ miles on the ski car (jeep cherokee) each winter, and maybe an extra 11-12,000 miles now, living in portsmouth. you'd think i'd put half as much in now, but i pull extra trips some weeks to hit storms as portsmouth feels just close enough for me to warrant it. cost/worth means nothing to me as far as skiing goes as i'd live in a dumpster to keep the dream alive. chili is just a few weeks away!

rog

 

[rfarren]

Rog,
You live in Portsmouth? I love that town!

 

[icelanticskier]

Rog,
You live in Portsmouth? I love that town!

i live in newmarket and work in portsmouth. great town indeed! super groovy and plenty goin on. i would live in portsmouth, but i've really grown fond of gritty little newmarket, which is on the west side of the great bay. my bike ride to work is 14+- miles each way. if i lived in portsmouth, it would kill my workout of a bike commute as i'd be too close to work. if i don't get my hour and 40 minutes of base exercise per day, i get grumpy. come on up anytime and visit. that goes for all of the rest of ya's as well, even you marcC. O

rog

 

[Harvey]

disabuse

Good word James! (I had to look it up).

This board has had a "touchy" east versus west mud slinging contingent for a few years now. You will be surprised how many threads break down into petty tit for tat east versus west comments.

I've never been quite sure why this is the dominant theme here. Maybe it's because East and West are split into separate forums? It does get old. Especially in the summer when there aren't lots of new pics and TRs.

I mean...it's like politics....a democrat is never going to convince a republican to change his views. No one's going to convince Marc or Admin to move east and Rog probably ain't movin west.

I'm not a ski forum expert but it seems to me the intellect on FTO is a cut above the others I've looked at. (I love Patrick's KPR - Knowledge per Post Ratio). Here people read your stuff and give good input and feedback. Love that. Wish we could cut back on that other stuff.

 

[Marc_C]

This board has had a "touchy" east versus west mud slinging contingent for a few years now. You will be surprised how many threads break down into petty tit for tat east versus west comments.

I've never been quite sure why this is the dominant theme here. Maybe it's because East and West are split into separate forums? It does get old. Especially in the summer when there aren't lots of new pics and TRs.

I mean...it's like politics....a democrat is never going to convince a republican to change his views. No one's going to convince Marc or Admin to move east and Rog probably ain't movin west.

If I may speak for Admin as well as myself...

We're not trying to get anyone to move west*. We're not saying west is better than east, either from the skiing or lifestyle perspective.

We are saying that for us, it's a better place to live and ski. It may not be better for others, and frankly, we don't care. We're also sometimes saying why we don't like living where we came from.

What does rub us the wrong way is misinformation, misconceptions, myths, and outright fabrications of what things are like "here", wherever here may be. It's this last bit where things have gotten contentious from time to time. The sweeping generalizations coming from thousands of miles away, based on nothing more than impressions from a handful of ski trips is when it gets particularly annoying.

*: Re: "west" - I'm speaking from the perspective of the intermountain west, and, obviously, specifically Utah - not the PNW, CO Rockies, CA coast, etc.

Not to say that flinging the occasional jab or mud pie isn't fun! \/ As is :stir: !

 

[Admin]

If I may speak for Admin as well as myself...

We're not trying to get anyone to move west*. We're not saying west is better than east, either from the skiing or lifestyle perspective.

We are saying that for us, it's a better place to live and ski. It may not be better for others, and frankly, we don't care. We're also sometimes saying why we don't like living where we came from.

What does rub us the wrong way is misinformation, misconceptions, myths, and outright fabrications of what things are like "here", wherever here may be. It's this last bit where things have gotten contentious from time to time. The sweeping generalizations coming from thousands of miles away, based on nothing more than impressions from a handful of ski trips is when it gets particularly annoying.

Hear, hear!

 

[Patrick]

We're not trying to get anyone to move west*. We're not saying west is better than east, either from the skiing or lifestyle perspective.

pocorn:

What does rub us the wrong way is misinformation, misconceptions, myths, and outright fabrications of what things are like "here", wherever here may be. It's this last bit where things have gotten contentious from time to time. The sweeping generalizations coming from thousands of miles away

Hear, Hear! :stir:

 

[jamesdeluxe]

We're not saying west is better than east, either from the skiing or lifestyle perspective.

dis·in·gen·u·ous
1. Not straightforward or candid, insincere, or giving a false appearance of simple frankness
2. Pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated

 

[Admin]

We're not saying west is better than east, either from the skiing or lifestyle perspective.

dis·in·gen·u·ous
1. Not straightforward or candid, insincere, or giving a false appearance of simple frankness
2. Pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated

Oh, please...knock off the bull$hit. Marc_C was quite eloquent...and accurate...in explaining his (and my) position. For me, West is better. For someone else maybe not. Who cares? It's the misrepresentations, over-generalizations and just plain ignorance exhibited about living here from those who never have that are obscenely annoying. What you're apparently overlooking is that both he and I have spent the majority of our lives back East, so we're not speaking from a similar position of ignorance.

 

[icelanticskier]

Hear, hear!

NO!

HERE, HERE!!!!!!

WAY MORE BETTERER FOR YOU AND ALL OF THE REST OF US HERE!!!!!!!!

:stir: :dead horse: pocorn: :mrgreen:

rog

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Since everyone here has conceded that the Wasatch, on an absolute basis, has better (and better situated) lift-serviced skiing than anywhere else on this continent, when someone who has argued that very point hundreds of times suddenly changes gears and claims that it's not necessarily better than the East, yes, I'd call that disingenuous.

And while we're at it, I'd like to remind this "Admin" persona that FTO has, over the years, developed certain codes of conduct to ensure that conversations here remain both enlightening and civil. Claiming that my contribution was [that hurtful word] negatively impacts the noise-to-signal ratio on the entire forum. I hope "Admin" will keep that in mind moving forward, and carefully weigh his choice of words before clicking the "submit" button.

 

[Marc_C]

Since everyone here has conceded that the Wasatch, on an absolute basis, has better (and better situated) lift-serviced skiing than anywhere else on this continent, when someone who has argued that very point hundreds of times suddenly changes gears and claims that it's not necessarily better than the East, yes, I'd call that disingenuous.

If you really believe that, then you really haven't been reading nor keeping the statements in context.

 

[Admin]

And while we're at it, I'd like to remind this "Admin" persona that FTO has, over the years, developed certain codes of conduct to ensure that conversations here remain both enlightening and civil. Claiming that my contribution was [that hurtful word] negatively impacts the noise-to-signal ratio on the entire forum. I hope "Admin" will keep that in mind moving forward, and carefully weigh his choice of words before clicking the "submit" button.

Like I said earlier...

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Like I said earlier...

That my statement was both eloquent and accurate? Good, we finally agree on something.

 

[Patrick]

Guys... I'm new to this board, but I don't get it. Here's a guy who is relocating from Mammoth Lakes to the North East and is asking for some advise. I'm not dissing the East Coast experience, I grew up here, but now I ski equal time between the NE and Wyoming / Utah and have skied Mammoth and can tell you that they are two completely different experiences. I never find the need to have anything wider than 100mm wide in my East Coast quiver and every experience I had at Tucks (haven't skied it for 20 yrs) was wind blown boiler plate. Yes, I'm sure that there are some great powder days on Tucks, but I also know that that pitch is a prime example of a major slide area (highly crystalized snow, etc.). Our new West Coast friend will have a great experience on the East, just a different one.

See what you started??? pocorn:

This board has had a "touchy" east versus west mud slinging contingent for a few years now. You will be surprised how many threads break down into petty tit for tat east versus west comments. A lot of the guys that are regulars on the board are former east coasters, though they are not the primary trouble makers I don't think, in most cases. So don't take it personally if your solid inquiry broke down after only a few well thought out posts. I generally bow out once this whole east versus west argument heats up, but I just wanted to say I hope you don't take offense and please share some of your successes this winter!!

Unfortunately River is correct. Welcome to FTO where the KPP(trademark) and NPP (trademark) ratios are pretty good versus the other ski forum regardless of some posts.

:snowball fight:

I was going to take the highroad, but I just wanted to say that I agree with James' assessment of Marc C's history of posts on the forum.

 

[Geoff]

Oh, please...knock off the bull$hit. Marc_C was quite eloquent...and accurate...in explaining his (and my) position.
<snip>
What you're apparently overlooking is that both he and I have spent the majority of our lives back East, so we're not speaking from a similar position of ignorance.

No. M1 shoots his mouth off about things he doesn't have a clue about. In particular, he trolls Killington even though he hasn't been there in way over a decade. The one day I skied with him some years back in Utah, I thought his skills were marginal. His opinion is, at best, suspect since he clearly didn't have the skills to appreciate the terrain at a place like Killington when he lived in the east. If your review of Killington is based on their manmade intermediate & low-expert groomers, sure, it sucks. That's not the terrain where anybody I know skis. The best stuff isn't on the trail map. I have no idea if he's improved over the last 7 or 8 years but he's not a person I'd look to for an accurate assessment of New England options for an advanced skier.

 

[rfarren]

I was going to take the highroad, but I just wanted to say that I agree with James' assessment of Marc C's history of posts on the forum.

=D> =D> =D>

 

[Patrick]

Oh, please...knock off the bull$hit. Marc_C was quite eloquent...and accurate...in explaining his (and my) position.
<snip>
What you're apparently overlooking is that both he and I have spent the majority of our lives back East, so we're not speaking from a similar position of ignorance.

No. M1 shoots his mouth off about things he doesn't have a clue about. In particular, he trolls Killington even though he hasn't been there in way over a decade. The one day I skied with him some years back in Utah, I thought his skills were marginal. His opinion is, at best, suspect since he clearly didn't have the skills to appreciate the terrain at a place like Killington when he lived in the east. If your review of Killington is based on their manmade intermediate & low-expert groomers, sure, it sucks. That's not the terrain where anybody I know skis. The best stuff isn't on the trail map. I have no idea if he's improved over the last 7 or 8 years but he's not a person I'd look to for an accurate assessment of New England options for an advanced skier.

=D>
Touché... pocorn:

This isn't an East versus West thing. It's about someone constantly :stir: or when he's not in a position to talk. And before the finger pointing get to Portsmouth, there is no way I'd compare soomeone that skis like 50 days in a row and that has 100 days in a season with a ton of backcountry experience's opinion with others that might be simply .

Back to a skiing discussion, Geoff are you going down to Chile this Summer?