Salt Lake City

[Skidog]

Most of the time it's no different here than anywhere else.

I was thinking about this very thing on my drive up the hill on rte215 towards SLC. I could see the slight inversion building (though it doesnt look that bad this morning) and thought....hmmmm you know the difference between here and jersey is that here you can actually get ABOVE the "pollution" to see it. In Jersey there is nothing high enough to get above it so you're just in the soup all the time.

Its not as bad as it seems, and in actuality I think we are slightly further back than #2. LA was #2 this year I thought, and SLC something like 4 or 5? eh...its not great but it ain't as bad as some people make it out to be.

M

 

[rfarren]

the weather in pc is much nicer, less or no 3 pack a day smog like slc.

I just read an article about this yesterday and found it hard to believe...it said the air quality in SLC was 2nd worst in the US? Is that woodstoves or something with the mountains? What is causing that?

It's all about topography. You've got a valley ringed by mountains that doesn't let air circulate. Get a layer of air aloft that traps things near the ground and keeps them there, and ozone builds up at lower levels that can't clear out due to the mountains.

That said, it's not an everyday occurrence. While January temperature inversions may last for a couple of weeks, most often it's just for a few days. Most of the time it's no different here than anywhere else. If you
read what you say you did above it's misleading.

Along with the topography it doesn't help that SLC is not a very green city. There is a huge amount of car traffic for the population of the city. I was shocked when, the first time I visited, I was caught in worse traffic there than I have ever had in NYC. Rush hour in SLC is absolutely brutal. There also seemed to be a disproportionate amount of SUV's and gas guzzling giants. However, all that dirty air makes for some great sunsets!

I've also heard that Denver has pretty poor quality air. So, it clearly is not only SLC's problem, mountain cities seem to have this issue.

 

[Admin]

There is a huge amount of car traffic for the population of the city. I was shocked when, the first time I visited, I was caught in worse traffic there than I have ever had in NYC.

You're kidding me, right? :roll: You don't drive much in NYC, do you? "Rush-hour traffic" around here is a joke compared to anywhere else I've ever lived. While I'll admit that most travel north-south and I travel east-west, even with major reconstruction on I-80 I go clear fom one side of the Valley to the other in 14 minutes every day, and it never fluctuates by more than one minute in either direction. They're even using revolutionary road construction methods around here to minimize the effect on traffic, including building replacement bridges off-site and lifting them into place once complete, and moving center jersey barriers twice daily with a unique machine to maximize traffic flow in the heavier direction for each rush hour.

Now, if only they could effectively time traffic lights. :roll:

Also, FWIW we have one of the most effective and widely used public transportation systems for a city this size anywhere in the U.S. Public buses, of course, but also TRAX light rail and now FrontRunner commuter rail. Both have had ridership far exceeding plans and expectations. As a result both rail systems are currently being expanded.

 

[Admin]

FWIW, here's a press release regarding a list of the 10 worst cities for traffic congestion released from a study just this month:

http://www.inrix.com/pressrelease.asp?ID=56

And here's the scorecard:

http://scorecard.INRIX.com

You've got #2 there, m'boy. Where's SLC? #50:

http://scorecard.inrix.com/scorecard/Sc ... 5%2050.pdf

Our city's "worst bottleneck" ranks #2294 nationally.

 

[Skidog]

Also, FWIW we have one of the most effective and widely used public transportation systems for a city this size anywhere in the U.S. Public buses, of course, but also TRAX light rail and now FrontRunner commuter rail. Both have had ridership far exceeding plans and expectations. As a result both rail systems are currently being expanded.

As well as having many other cities come "study" SLC's vast public transportation....

Also to add further comment to the bridge constructions. National Geographic did some filming of the most recent bridge project on Rte 80. I think they are planning some kind of special on innovation construction techniques. If SLC had to replace the bridges they are going to replace IN PLACE...it would be a decade long undertaking and would close major roadways for months and month...they will replace 7 total bridges on the 80 corridor in around 4 total month build to install. The actual downtime for the roadways will be less than 1 month...its truly amazing...

Oh yeah and man...Farren...do you think rush hour starts at noon in NYC? the traffic here doesnt even come close to that of NJ..I could sit in traffic back in nj 1 or more hours to go 15-20 miles...even if I got on rte 15 here in SLC at the stroke of 5:30PM....it wouldnt take me an hour to get from one end of the valley to the other. Now...going towards ogden...Ummm not me...

M

 

[Admin]

Oh yeah and man...Farren...do you think rush hour starts at noon in NYC? the traffic here doesnt even come close to that of NJ..I could sit in traffic back in nj 1 or more hours to go 15-20 miles...even if I got on rte 15 here in SLC at the stroke of 5:30PM....it wouldnt take me an hour to get from one end of the valley to the other.

According to that study our "national travel time index" ranks #72. The NYC metro area is #5.

I also note this little tidbit:

Worst Bottleneck
Road: Cross Bronx Expy Westbound
Segment: Bronx River Pkwy/Exit 4B
Where: Bronx, NY
Length: 0.36 miles
Hours Congested per Week: 94
Avg Speed when Congested: 9.8 MPH
National Rank: 1

compared to:

Worst Bottleneck
Road: I 15 Northbound
Segment: Hwy 268/600/Exit 312
Where: Salt Lake, UT
Length: 1.16 miles
Hours Congested per Week: 11
Avg Speed when Congested: 21.3 MPH
National Rank: 2294

No offense, rfarren, but this is just yet one more example of a visitor thinking that they know more about living here than someone who actually lives here.

 

[jasoncapecod]

that section of the Cross Bronx deserves to be the winner..

i agree with Admin, Slc has no real traffic issues...

 

[jamesdeluxe]

This is another stupid thread detour. With all the subways and commuter trains available in the NYC area, anyone who actually drives to work in Manhattan deserves whatever he/she gets.

The pros and cons of SLC/NYC or East/West are obvious and they've been talked into the ground here and on every other chatboard.

If you don't like where you're living, then move. And once you're there, give the rest of us a break and stop trying to push your rose-colored glasses on everyone.

 

[Admin]

If you don't like where you're living, then move. And once you're there, give the rest of us a break and stop trying to push your rose-colored glasses on everyone.

That's just plain wrong. When someone writes BS like:

Rush hour in SLC is absolutely brutal.

I have a right to call . Facts as quoted above have nothing to do with "rose-colored glasses."

James, perhaps you missed the title of this topic?

 

[jamesdeluxe]

The subject of this thread is where someone subsisting on an entry-level salary in PC should live in the SLC area.

I've gotten stuck in both the morning and evening rush hour between SLC and Ogden and it was pretty unpleasant, but you guys have to collectively stop biting on this chum (and of course, RFarren's comment was a huge exaggeration).

If you don't want more ECers to move out there and ruin your paradise, wouldn't it be smarter to let them believe their misguided perceptions?

 

[Admin]

The subject of this thread is where someone subsisting on an entry-level salary in PC should live in the SLC area.

And Rog turned it into a discussion on Cape Cod-area housing prices. And Harvey44 brought SLC air quality into the mix. And rfarren brought up SLC traffic. So what? Cape Cod-area housing prices have much less to do with the thread topic, but why would any of this actually be a problem? If you're sitting with a friend chatting over a few beers, do you insist that the conversation sticks precisely on topic? How boring! Why would this community be any different than that?

I've gotten stuck in both the morning and evening rush hour between SLC and Ogden and it was pretty unpleasant, but you guys have to collectively stop biting on this chum (and of course, RFarren's comment was a huge exaggeration).

And let misunderstood perceptions persist unchallenged? Why would I do that?

If you don't want more former ECers to go out and ruin your paradise, wouldn't it be smarter to let them believe their misguided perceptions?

:lol: Funny, but there's plenty of paradise to go around. We just logged our fifth consecutive record season for skier visits (http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4584), yet our skier density is still one-third of that in neighboring Colorado and there's plenty of pow to go around if you know what you're doing. Vermont still logged more skier visits than Utah did on far more limited terrain. I actually enjoy having friends here (even you :wink: ) -- the more the merrier.

I have no problems cheerleading Utah, for there are plenty of misconceptions floating around out there that we'll have no issues with being overrun with ECers for at least decades to come:

• You can't buy a drink in Utah
• That place is too conservative for me
• I couldn't deal with the religious culture
• It's too crowded
• Powder gets tracked up too quickly
• The food sucks, it's nothing but boring chain restaurants
• (and now) The air's too dirty, and
• Traffic is brutal

Each and every one of those points of view have been voiced here more than once. The bottom line is that these misperceptions are borne of ignorance, and I'm happy to do my part to try to change them. Funny, Marc_C and I were discussing this very subject over the weekend and he's of the attitude that the perceptions are so widespread and rampant that he's content to let their holders wallow in their ignorance and miss what they want to miss. While I understand and even share that view to some degree, I have my breaking point.

 

[Skidog]

If you don't want more ECers to move out there and ruin your paradise, wouldn't it be smarter to let them believe their misguided perceptions?

you do have a point here!!

M

 

[icelanticskier]

soooo, does anyone wanna go in on a group purchase of a home/ski gettaway home in the benches area of slc? i could stand to not stay at the murray studio 6 for months on end anymore, although it is convenient. a duplex/triplex could work. we could rent out one unit to salida to help cover the mortgage and have another unit or two to use as we see fit, sharon? hmmm? hmmm?
rog

 

[icelanticskier]

i know! we could call it, "firsttracksonline eastcoast invasion station"
rog

 

[Harvey]

Hey for the record, I was trying to say I found it hard to believe what I had read about air quality. I know Denver has, or used to have, air issues, but those mountains are west of the city...and with the prevailing wind it made sense to me. In my original post, I was wondering if there was heavy industry or some other factor that would explain it. I wasn't trying to dis a city I've never seen.

 

[EMSC]

I've also heard that Denver has pretty poor quality air.

Similar theme as SLC. Short term temperature inversions in winter and occasional day here or there in summer where the mtns to the west block any minor breeze that could/would blow the smog out. Interestingly, a lot less due to cars now than you'd think (and way better than the 80's when Denver was known for it's all the time "brown cloud"). Now one of the biggest contributors is all the oil & gas wells out here. Though new emissions requirements kick in on those over the next few months which should keep getting the air even cleaner than the low point in the 80's.

It's all about perception - the air is much cleaner out here now than a period when most everyone (outside of the region) thought the air was clean simply because Denver metro is near the 'clean' mtn environment. Similar story with lots of rivers, etc.. with pollution generally being much better now than it has been for decades, yet tons of mass media hyperbole about how unbelievably bad things are today... (not that there aren't plenty of things to keep working on to make it even better).

Plus I get out of the city air to recreate 95% of the time anyway. Getting out of the city to play is much easier to do out here than most big metro's...

 

[Admin]

Hey for the record, I was trying to say I found it hard to believe what I had read about air quality. I know Denver has, or used to have, air issues, but those mountains are west of the city...and with the prevailing wind it made sense to me. In my original post, I was wondering if there was heavy industry or some other factor that would explain it. I wasn't trying to dis a city I've never seen.

No worries, I for one never interpreted it that way. Yeah, we have air quality issues, more so on limited days than others. I was just trying to explain it as best I could.

Man, I remember Denver's situation very well. I spent some years as a kid growing up in Boulder, and recall visiting Red Rocks outside of Golden and seeing nothing but the brown cloud sitting over the Denver metro area. The pollution situation there grew exponentially during the years that my family lived there. And there are inversion days here in January when you can barely see a half mile down in the Valley. I always cringe whenever an inversion sets in right before I have visitors arriving.

 

[icelanticskier]

harv, gotta check it out. it's one of the only cities i'd consider living in and have. and about the traffic thing, cape cod, hyannis in particular has worse traffic at most times of the day than slc ever does and i consider slc traffic to be a joke as well. east/west north south with a beltway around, easy to get to airport and mountains, now only if the great salt lake had a perfect right point break. if there were any less traffic there, i'd be affraid of city wide collapse/shut down with tumbleweed and ghosts as the primary residents.
good thread, gggggooooooodddddd thread
rog

 

[Tony Crocker]

One point I'll take issue with the SLC locals is about construction. I-80 was diverted to surface streets for 2 full years during the Olympic construction. They would never stand for that in SoCal. But the normal level of SLC traffic? Yep, rfarren was too inviting a target for that one.

L.A.'s smog, like SLC's is trapped by mountains blocking the winds from blowing much of it away. But the chemical process to create ozone out of the air is enhanced by sunlight and/or heat. Thus our smog is worst in summer. So I don't understand why SLC's is worse in winter.

pollution generally being much better now than it has been for decades, yet tons of mass media hyperbole about how unbelievably bad things are today

Very true. Anybody who whines about smog now didn't experience L.A. from the 50's through 70's.

I'm firmly convinced that admin's first 3 bullet points (interrelated) are the key deterrent to outsiders moving to SLC, and probably somewhat of a depressant to vacation visits as well. IMHO the negative image also plays a role in keeping real estate prices lower than otherwise similar metro areas.

 

[Admin]

L.A.'s smog, like SLC's is trapped by mountains blocking the winds from blowing much of it away. But the chemical process to create ozone out of the air is enhanced by sunlight and/or heat. Thus our smog is worst in summer. So I don't understand why SLC's is worse in winter.

More dramatic temperature inversions.

I'm firmly convinced that admin's first 3 bullet points (interrelated) are the key deterrent to outsiders moving to SLC, and probably somewhat of a depressant to vacation visits as well.

Without a doubt. And most reasonable locals -- from either side of the fence -- fully understand this.