Which resort in Argentina/Chile?

[johnnash]

I'll be travelling to Buenos Aires on business, probably from Aug 13-24, and may have a free weekend after that for skiing before I have to go on to Montevideo. With only 2-3 days to spend , I'm looking for a resort with minimal transport time from BA, and where the chances for decent conditions are high. In terms of preferences, I ski mostly blue groomers, but enjoy some ungroomed or groomed blacks for a challenge. I've been poking around the web, and I gather that the most well-known among international skiers are Bariloche and Las Lenas, but both have some downsides, and there are several other smaller resorts that seem like possibilities, especially for a short stay. Any advice or relevant experience would be welcome!

 

[Tony Crocker]

In your case, definitely Bariloche and the nearby ski area Catedral. Not too far away is San Martin de Los Andes and its ski area Chapelco. These are supposed to be nice resort towns with lakes and great scenery. The rap on these areas is low altitude and less snow than the higher areas on the spine of the Andes. But they got a huge dump last week http://www.powderquest.com/news.aspx so this could be a great year to go there.

Presumably you've read about my Las Lenas trip 2 years ago http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=1164 . The emphasis upon steep off-piste would not be the best fit for you. Another problem is Las Lenas' remote location with the Saturday only flights to the convenient airport at Malargue. I suspect flights into Bariloche are more frequent and easier to fit into your schedule.

 

[johnnash]

Yes, thanks, Tony. I had reached pretty much the same conclusion that Las Lenas wasn't the best option, for the reasons you mentioned. When I started looking at air schedules, I also discovered that the schedules are better a(nd cheaper) to Santiago than to the Argentince resorts, so I may also look at the resorts close to Santiago.

 

[Geoff]

Yes, thanks, Tony. I had reached pretty much the same conclusion that Las Lenas wasn't the best option, for the reasons you mentioned. When I started looking at air schedules, I also discovered that the schedules are better a(nd cheaper) to Santiago than to the Argentince resorts, so I may also look at the resorts close to Santiago.

Valle Nevado/La Parva is likely your best option. Lots of intermediate groomed terrain. 2-ish hours from the airport in Santiago and less from downtown. Beware that they price gouge on transportation between the airport and the ski resorts. You'll get whacked for ~$360 round trip. The road requires chains so you're kind of stuck unless you can find a local source for a rental car that will give you chains (or 4wd).

For 2 or 3 days of skiing, consider doing day trips from Santiago rather than stay at the resort. Look at http://www.skitotal.cl for day trip prices from the local hotels.

I believe Valle Nevado will book short stays. Their prices are on their web site. Portillo insists you stay a week.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I can probably answer some questions or give references on the skiing from Santiago. The NASJA trip did not draw enough interest and was cancelled. By the time that had happened I had set up my time in Peru, including the flight from there to Santiago.

So Adam and I will still be in Chile from Sept. 6-15, but on our own. Plans are not final but I will probably be going through http://www.santiagoadventures.com/ , which is a full service operator for all types of Chile tourism, and handle all the arrangements for El Arpa Snowcat Skiing in particular.

In your case I'd recommend Valle Nevado, and the 4-star Puerto de Sol hotel there that NASJA was going to use. Independently I've heard of poor service at the 3-star Tres Puntas. I'm hoping to split time between there and Los Andes, which is 1+ hour from both Portillo and El Arpa. NASJA was going to combine Valle Nevado with Chillan, which is 5+ hours south of Santiago. If you go to Chillan independently, the acclaimed Colchagua Valley wineries are about halfway between. We're probably spending the last 2 days of our trip there.

 

[Geoff]

If you go to Chillan independently, the acclaimed Colchagua Valley wineries are about halfway between. We're probably spending the last 2 days of our trip there.

Interesting. My Robert Parker Wine Advocate showed up in the mail on Friday. For the first time ever, they have done Chile. They tasted 650 wines and recommend 279. In the Colchagua Valley, they have a bunch of wines that are rated in the 90's and many are reasonably priced. Get to a wine shop and photocopy the 10 pages. I've had pretty good luck with random selections over the year. A buyers guide improves the odds. Make sure you sample a lot of carmenere. Very little of it gets to the US.

In my experience, the Jumbo hypermarket in Las Condes (the ritzy part of Santiago on the way to Valle Nevado) has a very good wine selection. There's another one in Chillan with the same inventory.

 

[johnnash]

Yes, thanks Geoff and Tony, after looking around, it seems that staying in Santiago is a pretty good option, especially since I can't afford to get stuck at a resort, which seems to be a real possibility if there's a dump. Another nice advantage is that I could apparently ski each day at a different one of the 3 closest resorts (Parva, Colorado, or Nevado), although it's hard for me to tell from the info on the websites what are realistic transport times from Santiago. Geoff, what would you estimate to be the "normal" transport times for each of these 3 from downtown?

And on the wines, yes I agree that there are some great wines coming from Colchagua -- and other relatively recently "discovered" areas like Aconcagua also -- since those regions seem to be where the big-name international wineries have set up shop, presumably because land is cheap. But don't forget that Maipo is still the region with the longest winemaking history, and Cousino Macul (which is virtually in Santiago) is IMHO still one of the best. If you like smoke, leather, and tobacco, their Antiguas Riservas cab is your wine! But definitely try lots of carmenere as well. Since it was re-discovered a few years ago (for decades, everyone thought it was merlot!), it's rapidly becoming Chile's signature grape.

 

[Geoff]

Another nice advantage is that I could apparently ski each day at a different one of the 3 closest resorts (Parva, Colorado, or Nevado), although it's hard for me to tell from the info on the websites what are realistic transport times from Santiago. Geoff, what would you estimate to be the "normal" transport times for each of these 3 from downtown?

<snip>

But definitely try lots of carmenere as well. Since it was re-discovered a few years ago (for decades, everyone thought it was merlot!), it's rapidly becoming Chile's signature grape.

La Parva, el Colorado, and Valle Nevado interconnect. The drive time is the same since they share a common entry road. Halfway up, you take a right to go to Valle Nevado and a left to go to the other two. At least at Valle Nevado, you can get a lift ticket that works at both Valle Nevado and La Parva.

At el Colorado, I've never used any of the lifts but the T-bar that goes up the back side from Valle Nevado. You use it to access some very intersting (and big slide risk) off-piste that dumps you out on the Valle Nevado access road. Nobody ever asked me for a lift ticket.

If it's in your budget, I noticed that the InterContinental has a $120 internet rate. From there, it's sub-2 hours. I suspect that if you use somebody like SkiTotal, there will be a lot of screwing around along the way stopping at hotels and getting people into rental equipment.

When I'm in Chile, I pretty much only drink Carmenere. It's pretty much unobtainable where I live.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Season snowfalls:
Portillo 159 inches
Valle Nevado 90 inches
Not bad for July 5. But the exceptional conditions are farther south. Since Alta Patagonia's own website admits to average annual snowfall of only 60 inches at the base and 240 up top, Bariloche might be worth a look for someone like John with a flexible schedule, given the unusually strong start to its season. It sound likes he's been to Chile before anyway.

Aconcagua Valley wine area is near Los Andes, for those skiing Portillo and/or El Arpa. We probably won't have time to visit wineries when we're in that area. One of the South America guidebooks also mentions Cousino Macul, so we should probably try to squeeze that in when we're in Santiago.

Everything I've read recommends staying in the resorts and not doing daily commutes from Santiago. Not only for being on the right side of road closures on powder days, but also for commute times and exorbitant transfer costs. I'm making an exception for Portillo because I don't want to spend a whole week there on my first Chile trip, and because I want to try El Arpa while I'm in that area. If you are going to do a lot of commuting, it may be best to rent a 4WD for $75/day.

 

[ChrisC]

I'm making an exception for Portillo because I don't want to spend a whole week there on my first Chile trip, and because I want to try El Arpa while I'm in that area.

I've been curious about length of vacation at ski areas.

I am a hyper traveler when motivated...and do not want to waste time.

I think one week at Portillo would be too long. I liked 'Salida's' pics....but unless I got a storm cycle...a week might(will be) too long for me.

I have never been to SA, but would like to take extended time and try: Peru, Santigo- for skiing, Argentina - a little Las Lenas and a little Buenos Aries, Brazil - Rio. In about 3 weeks.

So is skiing Portillo for 1-2 days from Santigo, 4 at Valle Nevado complex seem reasonable?

I asked a year ago or so -- Tony seems to think Las Lenas is for a week....go with the flight schedule.

Anyways, this comes from someone who got Euro equivalent vacation time for some time working in Dublin. And I did the following: 5 days at Les Tres Vallees, 4 days Val d'Isere/Tignes, 4 days La Grave (and others), and 4 days Chamonix/Verbier/home.

 

[Patrick]

So is skiing Portillo for 1-2 days from Santigo, 4 at Valle Nevado complex seem reasonable?

I asked a year ago or so -- Tony seems to think Las Lenas is for a week....go with the flight schedule.

I've been doing a bit of research in the past few months. From my understanding, 4 days at Valle Nevado/El Colorado/La Parva might be a bit much compared to 1-2 days at Portillo. I was told that they were pretty much intermediate with few steep shots (unless you ski the backcountry between them).

From my understanding....Portillo and Termas de Chillan are the real interesting ones, VN/EC/LP would come afterward. And yes, Las Lenas is better than those (when Marte is open). However VN/EC/LP are conveniently located next to Santiago.

One last note, you'll get hit with a $100 US fee when you land in Chile, so you'll save money by arriving in Argentina then travelling across to Chile. However the pass/road is subject to closure and the border crossing is all expect fast...expect a bureaucratic delay, especially if you're not comfortable with Spanish. All this is second-hand of course.

 

[johnnash]

Transportation to Portillo from Santiago is considerably more expensive (US$50 per person, 4-person minimum with KL Adventures) than to the 3 closer resorts ($15), from which I infer it must be a much longer trip.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The transfers from Santiago are very expensive when quoted alone. When we were going to be arriving a day late for the NASJA trip, I was quoted $110pp from Santiago airport to Valle Nevado, and you had to pay that round trip price even if you were only going one way.

Now I'm dealing with Santiago Adventures on a package deal where the transport costs aren't broken out. Since they run El Arpa and I'm getting a press discount I'm not inclined to nitpick.

I'll respond to Chris C.'s questions because I'm also a "hyper traveler" and his proposed itinerary is essentially a combination of my 2005 and 2007 trips.

Peru: We'll be there 9 days, and if you're going to hike the Inca trail you need 7 minimum. Our extra 2 are for river rafting (which also adds a 3rd acclimitization day in Cusco) and the highly recommended Nazca lines. Without the hike you could hit some highlights in 4 or 5 days. If you want the Inca Trail in July or August you need to reserve it at least 4 months ahead to get specific dates. We barely got reservations for Sept. 1-4 in late May.

Las Lenas: Saturday to Saturday for the hotel/flight schedule and enough time to get a good shot at Marte open.

Other Argentina and Brazil: We had one day Buenos Aires, 1.5 days Iguazu Falls, 4 days Rio. These are the consensus highlights, all popular and easy to arrange.

Chile: I'll know more once I've been there, but since Santiago Adventures runs the El Arpa snowcat skiing, they have package deals where you stay in Los Andes and ski both there and at Portillo for as many days as you choose.

I think 3 days is about right for the lift-served Valle Nevado group. The guy at Powderquest says La Parva's terrain is more challenging, but Valle Nevado gets more snow. They have an 8-day package which also includes El Arpa/Portillo, but like Extremely Canadian is not flexible for dates.

One of the guides from CPG in Alyeska works at Valle Nevado's heliskiing in the summer. Terrain and prices are customized to the interests of each group. For a strong group in exciting terrain plan on about $950 for 25,000+ vertical.

If you go to Chillan, you can chew up 2 days getting there and back to Santiago, which NASJA was going to do by train to minimize cost. I'd recommend flying or spending some of that transit time in the Colchagua Valley wine district. It's also possible to cross the border farther south from Chillan (maybe skiing Pucon also) and go to Bariloche.

But on a "hyper travel" schedule in Chile I think it's best to stay close to Santiago.

My two trips are a combined 5 weeks. If you want to go everywhere ChrisC mentions, I think you need at least 4 weeks.

 

[Patrick]

Transportation to Portillo from Santiago is considerably more expensive (US$50 per person, 4-person minimum with KL Adventures) than to the 3 closer resorts ($15), from which I infer it must be a much longer trip.

The Three Valleys (VN/EC/LP) is just above Santiago - on a long, twisting and scary road. Portillo is further to the NE.

The transfers from Santiago are very expensive when quoted alone. When we were going to be arriving a day late for the NASJA trip, I was quoted $110pp from Santiago airport to Valle Nevado, and you had to pay that round trip price even if you were only going one way.

I don't have the exact details, but my friend SuperNat was staying in Santiago and using shuttles to ski at VN, etc... She didn't mention anything about being expensive. Her trip was pretty unexpensive from what I was told. (yes, she was a solo traveller). Although she would have like to stay closer (no vacancies?), she ended up in Santiago. Price/Quality for lodging was pretty amazing I was told.

I'll respond to Chris C.'s questions because I'm also a "hyper traveler" and his proposed itinerary is essentially a combination of my 2005 and 2007 trips.

Here's a good safari trip of skiing in South America. 3 weeks for 3g (I believe that the amount I was told).

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... hp?t=59375

If you go to Chillan, you can chew up 2 days getting there and back to Santiago, which NASJA was going to do by train to minimize cost. I'd recommend flying or spending some of that transit time in the Colchagua Valley wine district. It's also possible to cross the border farther south from Chillan (maybe skiing Pucon also) and go to Bariloche.

I was surprise to learn that SuperNat didnt' lose a day when she travelled from Santiago to Pucon by bus. Some Buses in Chile and Argentina have beds, so she sleeped for the 800km overnight trip and woke up the next day and when skiing that morning.

My two trips are a combined 5 weeks. If you want to go everywhere ChrisC mentions, I think you need at least 4 weeks.

OR GO BACK NEXT YEAR. I've read some great stuff about Pantagonia. Everything from Chile, Argentina, Peru and part of Brazil (Rio) + some serious skiing might make a 5 weeks trip to jam pack with stuff or a bit to much.

 

[Geoff]

Chile: I'll know more once I've been there, but since Santiago Adventures runs the El Arpa snowcat skiing, they have package deals where you stay in Los Andes and ski both there and at Portillo for as many days as you choose.

I think 3 days is about right for the lift-served Valle Nevado group. The guy at Powderquest says La Parva's terrain is more challenging, but Valle Nevado gets more snow. They have an 8-day package which also includes El Arpa/Portillo, but like Extremely Canadian is not flexible for dates.

One of the guides from CPG in Alyeska works at Valle Nevado's heliskiing in the summer. Terrain and prices are customized to the interests of each group. For a strong group in exciting terrain plan on about $950 for 25,000+ vertical.

If you go to Chillan, you can chew up 2 days getting there and back to Santiago, which NASJA was going to do by train to minimize cost. I'd recommend flying or spending some of that transit time in the Colchagua Valley wine district. It's also possible to cross the border farther south from Chillan (maybe skiing Pucon also) and go to Bariloche.

Your advice about getting to Chillan is dead wrong. The nearest airport is in Conception which is another hour+ away. The Santiago/Conception flight I'm aware of has most people hanging around at the airport in Santiago for 4 or 5 hours. The train is the only way go go. First class is spacious and you can order food aboard. The view is killer. If you insist, you can get out partway, hire a car, and do the vineyard thing on your way though Chile in the middle of winter isn't exactly ideal for vineyard tours.

I don't know how long Valle Nevado has had US or Canadian-trained heli-skiing guides. In my experience, their operation was high on testosterone and low on safety. Maybe they've gotten better.

I really don't quite follow how you get off giving resort recommendations at a place you've never been. The off-piste at Valle Nevado riding the el Colorado T-bar and skiing down to the Valle Nevado access road is probably the best in Chile.

 

[Patrick]

The off-piste at Valle Nevado riding the el Colorado T-bar and skiing down to the Valle Nevado access road is probably the best in Chile.

That the place I was thinking about the backcountry earlier. I've seen picture taken from another friend (not SuperNat) that has done it.

I believe it was Max (who used to write here more often a few years ago) that told me that the place had disappointed him. I found out when I bumped into him at Wildcat than he had been in Chile last Summer. I've read other comments with the same evaluation of the place. Of course, this is second hand.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I did make it clear that my recommendations were secondhand.

I did have an extended conversation with David Owen at Powderquest, and posted a reference to their 8-day trip out of Santiago. They ski in small guided groups, carry avy gear and emphasize off-piste. They spend 3 1/2 days in Farallones to ski at all 3 areas in the Valle Nevado group. So I'm not exactly denigrating those areas. I'm modeling my own trip after theirs and spending 3 of my 7 ski days there. David also mentioned the area around El Colorado's backside T-bar, and that Powderquest tours do some off-piste runs with road shuttle pickups.

With regard to heliskiing, I had what may have been my ultimate ski day with Chugach Powder Guides last March, and it seemed to be a professional operation that takes safety seriously. So when one of their guides says he works the summer heli guiding out of Valle Nevado, I thought I'd pass that info along. After my week in Las Lenas I am certainly aware that operational standards in South America are sometimes not what we are used to here.

With regard to Chillan, you're right. NASJA was going to be in Chile only 8 days, and I didn't think that it was ideal to spend 2 full days just in transit. So when I had to plan the trip on my own I did not research Chillan after I found the El Arpa/Portillo option. In South America sometimes air connections are not good, and perhaps the transit time to Chillan is unavoidable. I've certainly heard positive comments about Chillan skiing, and NASJA is likely to try to run this trip some other year.

My comments were in relation to ChrisC's hypothetical itinerary, which would put a priority on efficiency.

 

[ChrisC]

Thanks for responses. Appreciate it all.

If anyone could chime in on some questions:

How good are Valle Nevado interconnections? To La Parva and El Colorado?

Why does this place generally get just mediocre reviews? It seems a decent choice all together to me.

What do people do about skis if traveling to other places in South America. Sounds like you want to bring your own. Could you bring some with you...Fedex home...and go travel?

 

[Patrick]

How good are Valle Nevado interconnections? To La Parva and El Colorado?

I don't recall hearing something specific on this, except that it made for an expensive lift ticket that is good at all areas.

Why does this place generally get just mediocre reviews? It seems a decent choice all together to me.

My understanding from Max (I hope he read this and he can correct me if I'm wrong) is that he went out once at Valle Nevado and the other at El Colorado (La Parva was closed for the season). He didn't particularly like them. VN has long flats on the main side and there isn't much diversity in the slopes at El Colorado (it's a simple cone). Both of them have a few good pitchs, but disappointed versus what he found at Portillo.

I don't think that my friend SuperNat was negative toward them, but I don't recall great things either. The Skibumette that made to LaGrave two seasons ago skied a few weeks at El Colorado. She liked the place, but she's also a ex-racer that loves gates.

What do people do about skis if traveling to other places in South America. Sounds like you want to bring your own. Could you bring some with you...Fedex home...and go travel?

That is one that I'm also very curious about. I'll definitely bring my skis if I go, but I won't ski everyday and heard great things about Val Paraiso from SuperNat, Max and others.

 

[JimG.]

I'm still trying to figure out how we went from Argentina to Chile.

I spent a week in Portillo. If you want alot of lift serviced terrain, it probably isn't the best choice for you. But I don't think Chris is too picky about hiking some.

That was my case and I could have easily spent another week there between the almost limitless hiking/BC options and the on-site heli-skiing service. I was not bored at all and that week still rates amongst my top 5.

And what is good about Portillo is it is self-contained. You don't need to sign up to go there with a group to get guides or BC knowledge. Just sign up and pay as you go. If they don't have someone who can guide you to where you want to go on-site, they'll get someone.

Frankly, there was so much hike to terrain to explore I never got around to needing a guide.