Which resort in Argentina/Chile?

[Tony Crocker]

From David Owen at Powderquest:
1) If you drew a boundary line around all 3 resorts, the acreage would be about as much as Vail. Of course it doesn't ski like Vail because it's not all seamless and lift coneected.
2) Valle Nevado is biggest and the snow tends to blow in there. La Parva has the most interesting terrain, but it will be sketchy in low snow years (Max's trip?). El Colorado's frontside is flat but the backside T-bar area is good.
3) The Valle Nevado/La Parva connection is not that difficult, but it's high on the mountain. With only one high speed lift among all 3 areas and potential weather closures I can see possible logistics issues in trying to ski a lot at La Parva while based in Valle Nevado. Powderquest sleeps in Farellones and alternates ski days out of the La Parva and Valle Nevado bases. But if you're on your own it's unclear whether there's shuttle from Farellones to Valle Nevado.
4) The Valle Nevado/El Colorado connection is lower down and goes to that backside T-bar.
5) Valle Nevado room packages include lift tickets. You pay a $10 or $15 upgrade to access the other areas.

With regard to bringing your own skis, I had a bad experience in Las Lenas when I did not. So I think you just have to suck it up and arrange the logisitics to store them in your hotels when you're doing other things. I carried skis to Tahiti in 1982 and Fiji last year. A hotel in Lima will store them this year while we're in Cusco and on the Inca Trail. Buenos Aires, Iguazu and Rio would have been a hassle in 2005 but still doable. What you want to avoid is small planes into secondary airports. But you usually enter the country through a major city like Lima or Buenos Aires, so you should arrange to store the ski gear there.

I'm sure Geoff will chime in on these issues. Powderquest emphasizes lots of off-piste skiing on their trips. What I would like to know is how dependent this is upon guides for both navigation and safety? In most North American areas you can explore a lot on your own. In Europe you get a lot more out the experience if you're guided, and it's essential at a place like La Grave. Las Lenas was definitely in the Europe camp on this subject. I had only one clear day on Marte with a slower group, so I could navigate some but not comprehensively if I went back there. Adam was with Joe Lammers, so if we were together we could probably do OK.

 

[Patrick]

.
2) Valle Nevado is biggest and the snow tends to blow in there. La Parva has the most interesting terrain, but it will be sketchy in low snow years (Max's trip?). El Colorado's frontside is flat but the backside T-bar area is good.

I don't know if it was a bad year? Max was there late September last season. From my understanding, all the non-South American were gone for the season.

I'm still trying to figure out how we went from Argentina to Chile.

You drive across the border. :wink: Hopeful the Border crossing wasn't too difficult? :lol:

You don't need to sign up to go there with a group to get guides or BC knowledge. Just sign up and pay as you go. If they don't have someone who can guide you to where you want to go on-site, they'll get someone.

Frankly, there was so much hike to terrain to explore I never got around to needing a guide.

Sorry Jim, I'm not entirely clear here (maybe because I've been going out everynight this week). You're talking about individual guide available at the ski area. They'll bring you somewhere in the BC even if there isn't a group (there isn't a minimum requirement)? I presume the cost if for the guide divided by the amount of skiers in the guide?

How is the terrain controlled (ie. avy danger evaluated like in France although not necessarily controlled). What is your evaluation of the danger of the terrain you hiked?

 

[JimG.]

I'm still trying to figure out how we went from Argentina to Chile.

You drive across the border. :wink: Hopeful the Border crossing wasn't too difficult? :lol:

You don't need to sign up to go there with a group to get guides or BC knowledge. Just sign up and pay as you go. If they don't have someone who can guide you to where you want to go on-site, they'll get someone.

Frankly, there was so much hike to terrain to explore I never got around to needing a guide.

Sorry Jim, I'm not entirely clear here (maybe because I've been going out everynight this week). You're talking about individual guide available at the ski area. They'll bring you somewhere in the BC even if there isn't a group (there isn't a minimum requirement)? I presume the cost if for the guide divided by the amount of skiers in the guide?

How is the terrain controlled (ie. avy danger evaluated like in France although not necessarily controlled). What is your evaluation of the danger of the terrain you hiked?

Interestingly, there is a tunnel right near Portillo that goes through the Andes directly to Argentina. There are military bases on both sides of the tunnel, one in Argentina and one right near Portillo...you can see it from the high traverse. They don't like each other much.

As for the guiding question, I was unclear. The Hotel Portillo is run by Americans and most of the employees are American. It's an intimate place (for instance, all meals are served on a schedule and everyone eats meals together), so skiers who spend all their time on the high traverse or over by the lake runs on the hike to terrain get noticed by the locals. We were approached by several instructors who invited us to go on hikes I would never have tried alone, and ski patrollers run the heli-skiing operation and are the guides. So, once you get in with the locals and you want to try some far away line you see, they will get you there if possible. Anything close by is free, longer tours (a day in the BC) can be arranged for a price.

There is some avi control work done, but most of the time you have to check the avalanche warning board in the downstairs ski patrol office for avalanche updates. It snowed twice when we were there and the snow was well consolidated, but still there were days when the high traverse was off limits. Some of the hikes we did had to be done early in the morning before the sun was too intense; that kind of knowledge had to be gotten from the locals. You've got to be smart here.

My closest encounter with a potential avalanche happened one day on the high traverse. We went way way out to the very end of the traverse where the terrain is steepest (45-50 degrees in places) and we were directly across from the Chilean military base I mentioned. At the top of a steep narrow chute I suddenly hear a loud "BOOM" and an artillery shell goes whizzing right over the top of the peak we were on. That was followed by slough moving right down across the traverse just in front of where I was. After the second "BOOM" I pretty much moved about 200 yards in 3 seconds off that traverse while another bigger slough came down.

It was not avi control...they were practicing shooting artillery.

 

[Geoff]

Thanks for responses. Appreciate it all.

If anyone could chime in on some questions:

How good are Valle Nevado interconnections? To La Parva and El Colorado?

Here is a link to a trail map:
http://www.chileanski.com/images/valle- ... l-high.jpg
Lifts #6, #7, and #8 at the highest elevation on that trail map are platter lifts. Lift #4 is the high speed quad. Lift #1 is the main midmountain quad.

Where you see "Al Colorado", that is the base of a T-bar up the back side of el Colorado. There is usually a bump course on it with a couple of kickers.

From the top of the main Andes Express high speed quad at Valle Nevado, if you go straight for 200 yards, you are at La Parva. The return is equally trivial. You take the highest, rightmost chair at La Parva, make a few turns and traverse to skier's left and you're at Valle Nevado.

From the top of the main high speed quad at Valle Nevado, if you go straight for 50 yards and hang a left into the un-patrolled intermediate Olympico bowl (easy but a real delight), you'll end up near the T-Bar that goes up the steep back side of el Colorado.

This shot is taken from the hotel complex at Valle Nevado. The high speed quad goes to the peak on the right. Olympico Bowl is beyond the ridge line:

This is the off-piste sign for Olympico 50 yards from the top of the high speed quad:

This was taken maybe 1/4 of the way down Olympico. Pretty flat at the top, intermediate at the bottom:

If you stay at Valle Nevado, you can pay a small amount of cash at the ticket window to get an upgrade for the day to ski La Parva. I always did that on any sunny day.

Why does this place generally get just mediocre reviews? It seems a decent choice all together to me.

The skiing is fairly intermediate. If you are looking for high pucker factor terrain, this ain't the place. The off-piste from the back of el Colorado down to the Valle Nevado access road excluded.

Here is some footage taken in Olympico Bowl at Valle Nevado (Quicktime .mov format, if you don't have it, the free viewer is on the Apple site). As you can see, it's pleasant intermediate off-piste, not adreno-junkie territory:
http://www.geoffdevine.com/geoff_vallenevado2.mov

What do people do about skis if traveling to other places in South America. Sounds like you want to bring your own. Could you bring some with you...Fedex home...and go travel?

Americans tend to always bring their own. Everybody else tends to rent. As Tony can tell you, the rental stock in South America can be iffy. 8)

 

[Patrick]

I'm still trying to figure out how we went from Argentina to Chile.

While we're at it, why not add something about skiing in Peru? :shock:

Especially than Tony is going to spend sometimes in that country. :wink:

Here is a Hardcore TR from T4T forum. Climbing and Skiing in Peru.

It has a great video...I need a nap just thinking about it.:roll:

http://www.timefortuckerman.com/forums/ ... php?t=8561

It took me a year to finally get this project online. We spent 5 weeks in the Cordillera Blanca last summer (July/August 2006) skiing, climbing, throwing up, experiencing explosive diahhrea etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1CzNqth63o

 

[Tony Crocker]

Like that post for the Utah backcountry a year ago where someone climbed 3 peaks and skied 9,000 vertical, I have little doubt that the Peru skiing is out of my league.

Is it in anyone's league of the FTO regulars? Maybe Mark Renson. I think he's done a couple of those guided backcountry weeks in the Selkirks. Needless to say, anyone who's thinking about trying something like this should hire guides who know the area.

I once Googled "easiest 6,000 meter peak" and came up with this in Bolivia: http://www.climbecuador.com/itinerb.htm . Note that this trip also climbs that "highest developed ski area" Chacaltaya. Huayna Potosi is considered the easiest 6,000 meter peak because it's a 2 day climb above a well equipped hotel at 15,000 feet. In Peru and Ecuador the hikes are longer in both distance and elevation gain. Easy is a relative term, as that hotel is 500 feet higher than Mt. Whitney.

 

[Patrick]

Needless to say, anyone who's thinking about trying something like this should hire guides who know the area.

I was just kidding of course. If anyone doubts what Tony is saying on Peru, better read this quote from cfrac on T4T.

8: Body bag!?! What happened?

The snow was amazing untracked corn but to get it the timing window is narrow, night were dropping to about 10F and by about 10am the snow would start to corn up but any shady spots were still icy, by 2pm it would start to ice up again.
(...)
The body bag was the result of a grim accident, when we arrived at Artesonraju a film crew was there to film a swedish snowboarder ride the face, he made one turn and slid the face into a crevasse. The face is at least 60+ degrees at the top with rock bands lower, it looked completely insane. Prior to this there were three other major accidents of climbers falling or being swept off the face by serac collapse. The recovery team was a group of Peruvian Police that told us not to die because they were tired of carrying bodies out. It took them two days to make it back to the road. We were definitely shaken up by the scene, basecamp cleared out and then the weather turned bad so we called it quits.

 

[Tony Crocker]

End of July season-to-date snowfall totals:
Portillo 256 inches
Valle Nevado 139 inches

Base depth range at Las Lenas is 70-240cm.

 

[JimG.]

End of July season-to-date snowfall totals:
Portillo 256 inches
Valle Nevado 139 inches

Base depth range at Las Lenas is 70-240cm.

WOW! Portillo must be rocking.

Wish I were there.

 

[Tony Crocker]

http://www.powderquest.com/news.aspx has commentary on recent weather in the Andes. The big dumps were mid June and early July but there was a small refresher storm a week ago.

 

[ChrisC]

Looks like the Andes have had a few good years now.

The snowfall pattern seem very California Sierra Nevada like - big dumps, lots of clear weather and moderate temps. Makes sense since it is somewhat the reciprocal location in the Southern hemisphere.

What was the approximate base for Las Lenas when you were there a few years ago? Are they similar? What might be a 'good' level where most of the mountain is open?

 

[Tony Crocker]

The Andes snowfall pattern is more extreme than the Sierra. Monthly snowfall standard deviation at Las Lenas is 50% more than at typical Sierra resorts. Latitude is lower: Las Lenas = Taos, Valle Nevado = L.A., Portillo = San Diego. This probably has a lot to do with the volatility. But altitude is like Colorado and the peaks behind VN and Portillo are 16,000 - 20,000, so the big dumps when the storms get far enough north aren't a surprise either.

In terms of base depths I was at Las Lenas in a big year, so I can't say what is necessary. Realistically this is about the time one would need to commit to late August/early September at Las Lenas, and the current 70-240cm. base would not be a deterrent IMHO. Extremely Canadian does say the lower mountain has been sketchy on some of their trips, but Marte's terrain preserves well and doesn't get enough skier traffic to chew it up.

The above comments would not apply to resorts farther south in Chile. From what I read, Chillan is a good analogy to our NW resorts. Lower altitude, more consistent but wetter snow.

 

[Snoventures.com]

Las Lenas is indeed an excellent resort for backcountry providing the Marte lift is open,although it shuts frequently.
My personal favourite is Termas de Chillan with great backcountry options and several off piste areas to explore.
Don't overlook some of the smaller resorts that only have a few lifts, where you can get more than your fair share of pow.

 

[Patrick]

My personal favourite is Termas de Chillan with great backcountry options and several off piste areas to explore.
Don't overlook some of the smaller resorts that only have a few lifts, where you can get more than your fair share of pow.

Termas is currently on radar for my trip, not sure, still trying to figure the logistics.

On the definite list are the Three Valleys areas, Portillo and Arpa.

Initially I was looking into maybe one day at Chape Verde (700m vert) or Lagunillas (350m) near Santiago. I was also looking at Pucon at one point, but opted for the closer Termas de Chillan.

Leaving Canada on August 28th.

 

[Snoventures.com]

I'd recommend Termas before the others with a day or two cat skiing at El Arpa.

Rich

 

[Tony Crocker]

August 23 season-to-date snowfall totals:
Portillo 287 inches
Valle Nevado 177 inches
That's only 31 and 38 inches of August snowfall.

Base depth range at Las Lenas is 120-270cm.

I am wondering if I should have done Chillan instead of the Valle Nevado group for the second half of my trip, particularly since we're visiting the Colchagua Valley, which is nearly halfway there.

I guess my rationale while planning was related to snow conditions at comparable elevations in North America. Since Chillan is much lower than Portillo or Valle Nevado, I figured spring conditions in mid-September would be more likely. Like comparing PNW areas to Mammoth. Those of you who have been there are welcome to comment.

 

[ChrisC]

Are you primarily concerned about conditions?

I'm not sure if you are following these threads at TGR, but they might provide some useful for observations.

Termas de Chillan - going stale
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... as+chillan

South America general
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... as+chillan

 

[Patrick]

I'm not sure if you are following these threads at TGR (...)
Termas de Chillan - going stale
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... as+chillan

I don't know what your talking about. :wink:

Chris, are you still planning to head down?

Confirmed plans:
Portillo 5-8
El Arpa 9

Maybes:
30-31: Termas (2) or Three Valleys (2)
1-4: Three Valleys (3days) or Termas (2-3 days + travel)
11: Valle Nevado???

If I'm solo (train-bus) in the whole first week I would start in Termas, if not, I'll wait for some partners (rental car) to land to head South and hit the Three Valleys resorts first.

I should be seeing Tony for 2 days at Portillo and during that Arpa day.

 

[ChrisC]

I don't know what your talking about. :wink:

Chris, are you still planning to head down?

No. Someday. I just follow along for interest and future plans. And maybe if they ever made the Marte lift reliable.

For example, there is a lot more skiing in Chile than I realized. I did not really know about Arpa or Chillan until this year. The reality is I will not be able to see everything in South America I would want on a single trip. Pick and choose.



I was looking to possibly go to Europe this winter. Some friends were interested in doing the Chamonix to Zermatt Haute Route. I have not really done much touring (a few single days in the Sierra and 3-day San Juan) and the grand daddy of all tours sounds memorable. Some shoulder days at Chamonix OR Andermatt would make it especially appealing.

 

[Patrick]

there is a lot more skiing in Chile than I realized. I did not really know about Arpa or Chillan until this year. The reality is I will not be able to see everything in South America I would want on a single trip. Pick and choose.

I also didn't know much prior to planning this trip, definitely plan into making another trip to South America in the future.