Yellowstone Club files for bankruptcy

The Yellowstone Club members have very deep pockets. In one of those articles it was mentioned that the the local businesses needed the court order to collect on bills for from Club projects but never had issues with the private homeowners. So if the members bought for the privacy and spent $3-5 million on their homes, it would take a drastic increase in annual maintenance for them to consider any public arrangement IMHO.

Moonlight, on the other hand, seems inevitably likely to be consolidated into Big Sky.

ChrisC":29he7ljb said:
Skier density is so low there - much better than Telluride, Jackson, Steamboat, Snowbird. Of any major resort - the best skier day to acreage ratio.
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Agree on the skier density. But the acreage is Exhibit A of an area where it overstates usable ski terrain. The lower half of elevation (probably 3/4 of acreage) is much flatter than the benchmark 4-1 length to vertical. The upper half is far steeper, but at least half of that upper half is unskiable cliffs. In terms of usable vertical variety and fall line skiing, Jackson and Snowbird have more IMHO. Big Sky's snowfall is less than Telluride's and far less than the other 3 areas ChrisC mentions.
 
Tony Crocker":29211q0f said:
Agree on the skier density. But the acreage is Exhibit A of an area where it overstates usable ski terrain. The lower half of elevation (probably 3/4 of acreage) is much flatter than the benchmark 4-1 length to vertical. The upper half is far steeper, but at least half of that upper half is unskiable cliffs. In terms of usable vertical variety and fall line skiing, Jackson and Snowbird have more IMHO. Big Sky's snowfall is less than Telluride's and far less than the other 3 areas ChrisC mentions.
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Couldn't agree more. To all that you wrote, you must add the issues with aspect. Very little terrain at Big Sky, and virtually none of the higher elevation terrain off the summit, has a northerly aspect. On most days, the only lift worth lapping is going to be the Challenger lift b/c it possess legitimate pitch on most of its vertical with a more northerly aspect and better elevation than just about any other lift at the resort. From what I've heard, the best skiing on that massif is actually across the rope line at Moonlight, which faces almost entirely due north and has the more easily accessible Headwaters area (as compared to the tiny tram at BS).

Admin and I skied there in an El Nino, which is a notoriously lean pattern for the northern Rockies. We found some short shots that were interesting for 10 turns, but I think he would agree with me that we were generally underwhelmed. All things being equal, with decent snow I'd much rather spend time at Red Lodge, if you can believe it.
 
Mike Bernstein":dcjh7a32 said:
Admin and I skied there in an El Nino, which is a notoriously lean pattern for the northern Rockies. We found some short shots that were interesting for 10 turns, but I think he would agree with me that we were generally underwhelmed.
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I would agree. Terrain off the tram would be far more interesting if it were more accessible.
 
My first visit (the one where I also skied YC) was 2 weeks after admin's. It was not an El Nino but it was a season that favored southern over northern areas. I did get better snow conditions for those long runs off the tram. They do face south but were packed powder my first 2 days and good corn the last (3rd week of March). Challenger's main fall line is east, so really not better than Lone Peak when you take elevation into account. One of the north-facing runs from Challenger in 2001 is now part of Moonlight. At least half of those Headwaters north facing chutes require significant hikes from the lift. Big Sky's exposure issues are not as severe as Jackson's IMHO due to the higher elevation (presumably colder temps) of the steeps. You need continuous puking snowfall for Jackson to be any good in late March, while Lone Peak looks to be good for a couple of days after a storm plus more corn potential. Integration with Moonlight should also help Big Sky's late season a lot.

The 2006 visit with Patrick was during January of a big year. Yet Patrick was also quite critical of Big Sky/Moonlight's topography. Lake Louise is a somewhat comparable area in terms of snow, weather, scale and at least some degree skier density. I got the impression Patrick prefers Lake Louise, probably due to the better flow of topography for fall line skiing.
 
I would again make the case in the benefit of Big Sky.

The good stuff is not just Lone Mountain. Yes - the TRAM and a Challenger/double are the best.

However, there is bunch of mid-intermediate/low-expert on Andes Peak / Flat Iron --- it sits there uncontested. And so will almost of Moonlight / maybe Yellowstone.
 
The north side of Andesite is the main intermediate sector with decent pitch. Thunder Wolf is similar but it's low altitude and sun exposed, good on the January trip, mushy with thin spots in late March. The rest of Big Sky's groomers are quite flat, at least 5-1 length-to-vertical I'd guess. Moonlight cut some meandering blue trails off Lookout Ridge and some single black glades. But there are still long flat runouts to the base of the Six Shooter lift.

I don't discourage anyone from skiing these places. There's a lot of interesting (and hair-raising, Big Couloir is still probably the scariest skiing I've done) skiing there. But I would not put Big Sky/Moonlight on a short list of "best ski areas in North America" due to some of the flaws discussed here: snowfall, exposure, overly stratified topography.
 
Tony Crocker":27piq2eo said:
There's a lot of interesting (and hair-raising, Big Couloir is still probably the scariest skiing I've done) skiing there.
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Surely La Grave exceeds it, no?

And is that a challenge to me for when you're here this winter? Bring your skins. :wink:
 
admin":h0zxrb0g said:
Surely La Grave exceeds it, no?
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Obviously many places there would. I only got to ski 2 of the big off-piste couloirs at La Grave. They were not as steep as Big Couloir. La Vaute probably had similar fall consequences due to being 3x as long. Also, I had the hardpack on the upper, scarier part of Big Couloir vs. the lower part of La Vaute. Snow conditions always play a big part in these discussions. Patrick and Hamdog skied the Big Couloir in soft snow in 2006, likely a more comfortable experience.
 
Tony Crocker":1lpkr1ro said:
admin":1lpkr1ro said:
Surely La Grave exceeds it, no?
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Obviously many places there would. I only got to ski 2 of the big off-piste couloirs at La Grave. They were not as steep as Big Couloir. La Vaute probably had similar fall consequences due to being 3x as long. Also, I had the hardpack on the upper, scarier part of Big Couloir vs. the lower part of La Vaute. Snow conditions always play a big part in these discussions. Patrick and Hamdog skied the Big Couloir is soft snow in 2006, likely a more comfortable experience.
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You forgot to respond to this:

Admin":1lpkr1ro said:
And is that a challenge to me for when you're here this winter? Bring your skins. :wink:
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admin":195ihy33 said:
And is that a challenge to me for when you're here this winter? Bring your skins.
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Not necessarily. That is not a boundary I expect to push much farther. By observation and from TR's I suspect Little Chute is in the ballpark with Big Couloir. And IIRC aren't you supposed to be more conservative about terrain out of bounds than in-bounds?
 
Tony Crocker":wcnnaidf said:
And IIRC aren't you supposed to be more conservative about terrain out of bounds than in-bounds?
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Of course. It all depends on snowpack.

So, we'll start with Little Chute, then, and work our way up?
 
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