Alta in April

[Redlegger]

Of my 12 or so trips to Alta , they have all been in the same 2 week period in February. Finally my 17 year old starts kicking my butt lat season and really wanting to challenge himself and get better and we couldn't get away this winter. His spring break is April 3-10th. Typically what can you expect that time of year, realizing "all bets are off".

Thanks.

 

[Admin]

All bets are off.

Probably deepest bases of the year, or close to. Good snowfall in March and April, typically. Could be powder, could be corn. Baldy Chutes are more likely to be open. Sun works surfaces heavily by that time of year, so you have to think about your aspects and work the mountain at certain times of day accordingly.

 

[Marc_C]

And unless it's a powder day or conditions are benign, it's usually pointless to get up there earlier than 10-10:30, unless you really like either concrete-firm groomers or refrozen coral reef.

 

[Skrad]

Of course if the skiing isn't all you hoped for (last year it would have been, but that is not always the case) you can do a SW tour hitting some or all of Utah's 5 amazing national parks.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Reading the last few year's reports here, there is not often enough time between storms for good corn to develop in LCC in April. I'm sure the Altaphiles will throw their usual , but if it hasn't snowed recently there will be more terrain with dry winter snow at Snowbird than at Alta. On the big powder days it's all good, ski whatever you like best personally.

 

[Admin]

if it hasn't snowed recently there will be more terrain with dry winter snow at Snowbird than at Alta.

I can admit when I'm wrong. I thought we had disproved this frequently enough to give you a clue. I was wrong.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

 

[Tony Crocker]

While admin has lived in Utah for the past 5 years, with my well-known track record for Utah weather I suspect I've skied more warm weather spring days typical of early April than he has. :snowball fight:

If someone from Kentucky wants to put in significant hike time to get winter snow at Alta in April, more power to him. If he wants it to be more easily lift accessible, he should spend the majority (not necessarily all) of the warm weather days at Snowbird.

 

[EMSC]

Or you could just ski Colorado instead at that time of year where the higher altitude preserves the snow even better (and gives a higher probability of new, dry, powder snow to fall too). :snowball fight:

Although bases are still a bit low over this way compared to normal. We'll have to see what March brings though.

 

[Tony Crocker]

and gives a higher probability of new, dry, powder snow to fall too

Actually not. In March/April Front Range Colorado gets maybe 70% as much snow as LCC, which is admittedly an improvement over the 50% earlier in the season.

 

[EMSC]

I'd be interested in the quality of the snow in April though. As well as the speed to which it turns to mank...

 

[Marc_C]

...but if it hasn't snowed recently there will be more terrain with dry winter snow at Snowbird than at Alta.

Bull shit.
1. How many times have you skied BOTH Alta and Snowbird, on the SAME TRIP, in APRIL?
2. You appear to have this grossly mistaken idea that Alta and Snowbird are several miles apart, instead of the several hundred yards down to 3/8" in quite a few spots.
Frankly, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Admin]

How many times have you skied BOTH Alta and Snowbird, on the SAME TRIP, in APRIL?

To that I would add, "on the SAME DAY, at the SAME HOUR."

:roll: Here we go again. Who's more likely to know what they're talking about:

1. Someone 600 miles away who visits on average two times per year?
or
2. Numerous people who live 20 miles away and ski LCC two to three times per week and disagree vehemently with person #1?

Here's a list of non-north facing terrain at Snowbird:
1. ALL of Mineral Basin save for the Sunday Cliffs and the line below Hilary Step.
2. ALL of Peruvian Cirque save for Great Scott and North Chute
3. ALL of the Gad Chutes
4. ALL of Little Cloud Bowl, save for Mark Malou Fork
5. ALL of High Baldy save for Eddie's
6. ALL of Blackjack
7. ALL of the Keyhole area

That's a hell of a lot of terrain that will bake (and subsequently refreeze) when it gets warm and sunny out. That leaves for high-elevation north-facing terrain at Snowbird:
1. Great Scott
2. A couple of select lines in Mineral
3. Eddie's
4. Silver Fox
5. Mark Malou and the chutes just beyond the Knucklehead
6. Broomstick and STH (but not the rest of Gad 2)
7. Mach Schnell
8. Dalton's (upper only, not lower)

I may have overlooked an acre here or an acre there, but that's about it. The runs below Rothman's are too low to stay dry when it warms. Ditto for the Tigertail area.

North-facing terrain at Alta that stays dry includes:
1. ALL of Devil's Castle
2. ALL of North Rustler
3. ALL of Eagle's Nest
4. ALL of Ballroom/Baldy Shoulder
5. Baldy Chutes
6. Select parts of Catherine's
7. High Rustler/Hourglass/Regal
8. Nearly ALL of Wildcat (unlike Snowbird's lower runs, Alta's aren't too low)
9. Gunsight
10. Eddie's High Nowhere

Again, I might have overlooked an acre or two, but you get the idea. Collins Gulch at Alta is topologically nearly identical to both Peruvian Gulch and Gad Valley at Snowbird -- a north/south-oriented valley walled in by ridges with east and west aspects on their side, and a north-facing aspect where the ridge ends at the canyon. That in and of itself is enough to illustrate that the aspects are incredibly similar. Albion Basin at Alta is only slightly different -- it's an even broader valley, but unlike the other three it widens the further uphill you go. At Snowbird, you also have a massive south-, east- and west-facing expanse of terrain in Mineral Basin with only a minute portion facing north.

In case you need a visual aid, as you did when this very topic came up in 2009, here's Snowbird's north-facing terrain:

and here's Alta's:

Funny that I have to pull these same images out...again. Nice that I didn't have to prepare them again, for you're so predictable that I knew where to find them from last year.

If someone from Kentucky wants to put in significant hike time to get winter snow at Alta in April, more power to him. If he wants it to be more easily lift accessible, he should spend the majority (not necessarily all) of the warm weather days at Snowbird.

More .

Of the north-facing terrain listed above, at Snowbird:
1. Great Scott
2. Silver Fox
3. Mark Malou and the chutes just beyond the Knucklehead
4. Broomstick and STH (but not the rest of Gad 2)
5. Mach Schnell
6. Dalton's (upper only, not lower)
are accessible without hiking. I'm using that term in its strictest sense. #5, 6 and part of 3 require substantial traverses.

1. A couple of select lines in Mineral and
2. Eddie's
require light to substantial hiking, and in both cases a substantial traverse.

Of the north-facing terrain listed above, at Alta:
1. ALL of North Rustler
2. ALL of Eagle's Nest
3. ALL of Ballroom/Baldy Shoulder
4. ALL of High Rustler/Hourglass/Regal
5. ALL of Wildcat
are accessible without hiking.

1. Devil's Castle
2. Baldy Chutes
3. Catherine's
4. Gunsight and
5. Eddie's High Nowhere
require anywhere from light to substantial hiking. I didn't even bring up the East Castle area because, despite its substantial acreage of north-facing terrain, even I don't see that sidestep slog as being worth the effort.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love both places. But to say that:

if it hasn't snowed recently there will be more terrain with dry winter snow at Snowbird than at Alta.

is just absolute ill-informed , just like your asinine assertion that there's no traversing involved to get to the goods at Snowbird.

Frankly, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I couldn't have said it better -- or more accurately -- myself.

 

[Marc_C]

How many times have you skied BOTH Alta and Snowbird, on the SAME TRIP, in APRIL?

To that I would add, "on the SAME DAY, at the SAME HOUR."

:roll: Here we go again. Who's more likely to know what they're talking about:...

Can we sticky this somewhere so next year when Tony again forgets this schooling and regurgitates his 20 year old wild ass misconceptions we can easily repost it?

 

[coldsmoke]

How many times have you skied BOTH Alta and Snowbird, on the SAME TRIP, in APRIL?

Of the north-facing terrain listed above, at Snowbird:
1. Great Scott
2. Silver Fox
3. Mark Malou and the chutes just beyond the Knucklehead
4. Broomstick and STH (but not the rest of Gad 2)
5. Mach Schnell
6. Dalton's (upper only, not lower)
are accessible without hiking. I'm using that term in its strictest sense. #5, 6 and part of 3 require substantial traverses.

1. A couple of select lines in Mineral and
2. Eddie's
require light to substantial hiking, and in both cases a substantial traverse.

Of the north-facing terrain listed above, at Alta:
1. ALL of North Rustler
2. ALL of Eagle's Nest
3. ALL of Ballroom/Baldy Shoulder
4. ALL of High Rustler/Hourglass/Regal
5. ALL of Wildcat
are accessible without hiking.

1. Devil's Castle
2. Baldy Chutes
3. Catherine's
4. Gunsight and
5. Eddie's High Nowhere
require anywhere from light to substantial hiking. I didn't even bring up the East Castle area because, despite its substantial acreage of north-facing terrain, even I don't see that sidestep slog as being worth the effort.

This list will be very helpful for our first trip to Alta. We plan 3-4 days in mid to late March. Driving down from Montana. Been lurking for a long time, you guys are great.

 

[Admin]

Been lurking for a long time

Happy to see you de-lurk! Your contributions will be welcome.

 

[rfarren]

When is Crocker's march trip? I'll be out there from the 18th till the 21st before I drive on to Colorado. I'm wondering if I can get any turns with him.

 

[Admin]

When is Crocker's march trip? I'll be out there from the 18th till the 21st before I drive on to Colorado. I'm wondering if I can get any turns with him.

You'll miss his visit. At least that means it'll snow while you're here. :lol:

 

[socal]

First, let me say that personally, I'm a much bigger fan of Alta than Snowbird, hard to put my finger on the reasons. On trips to SLC I end up at Alta for at least a day or two and often times skip Snowbird completely. With that said, it does feel like the best stuff at Alta requires more "work" to get to (counting everything from the High T). Personally I don't mind this but I can kind of see Tony's point (but swap hiking to get there with just more traversing) for the average visitor.

I really haven't spent enough time at snowbird to know all the names of the spots there but on your Alta list below #1, 2, 3, half of 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 all require what I'd consider (again, not that I personally mind) a decent amount of work to get to. Can someone comment on how many of Snowbird's trails noted below are accessible either just off the lift or a very short traverse away?

Admittedly I'm sitting a long way away and don't know either area even remotely as well as the locals but while it seems Alta may have some terrain advantages the lift layout at Snowbird does seem to make access easier (again, Alta's works great for keeping the powder as untracked as possible for as long as possible but in the spring w/out new snow?).

That leaves for high-elevation north-facing terrain at Snowbird:
1. Great Scott
2. A couple of select lines in Mineral
3. Eddie's
4. Silver Fox
5. Mark Malou and the chutes just beyond the Knucklehead
6. Broomstick and STH (but not the rest of Gad 2)
7. Mach Schnell
8. Dalton's (upper only, not lower)

I may have overlooked an acre here or an acre there, but that's about it. The runs below Rothman's are too low to stay dry when it warms. Ditto for the Tigertail area.

North-facing terrain at Alta that stays dry includes:
1. ALL of Devil's Castle
2. ALL of North Rustler
3. ALL of Eagle's Nest
4. ALL of Ballroom/Baldy Shoulder
5. Baldy Chutes
6. Select parts of Catherine's
7. High Rustler/Hourglass/Regal
8. Nearly ALL of Wildcat (unlike Snowbird's lower runs, Alta's aren't too low)
9. Gunsight
10. Eddie's High Nowhere

 

[Admin]

it does feel like the best stuff at Alta requires more "work" to get to (counting everything from the High T).

As far as I'm concerned, there's a big difference between a hike and a gravity traverse, so I'll have to part company with you on what defines "work". I'll do maybe one or two uphill accesses per day, that's it. Gravity traverses don't faze me in the least. That said, the High T is hardly the only gravity traverse in LCC, and that applies to both ski areas. At Snowbird you have the Mid-Cirque Traverse, the Knucklehead Traverse, the Powder Paradise Traverse, etc., which are all every bit as long, bumpy and filling-loosening as the High T. And they access a substantial amount of Snowbird's terrain.

I really haven't spent enough time at snowbird to know all the names of the spots there but on your Alta list below #1, 2, 3, half of 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 all require what I'd consider (again, not that I personally mind) a decent amount of work to get to.

On that Alta list, #2, 3, 4 and 7 are all purely gravity traverses -- no uphill required. #1, 5, 6, 9 and 10 have uphill elements -- some insignificant, some substantial.

Can someone comment on how many of Snowbird's trails noted below are accessible either just off the lift or a very short traverse away?

#1, 4, part of 5 and 6 only. Most of #2 has an uphill element. You're defining "work" as including substantial traverses as well, however, and that includes #2, 3, part of 5, 7 and 8 all.

That leaves for high-elevation north-facing terrain at Snowbird:
1. Great Scott
2. A couple of select lines in Mineral
3. Eddie's
4. Silver Fox
5. Mark Malou and the chutes just beyond the Knucklehead
6. Broomstick and STH (but not the rest of Gad 2)
7. Mach Schnell
8. Dalton's (upper only, not lower)

North-facing terrain at Alta that stays dry includes:
1. ALL of Devil's Castle
2. ALL of North Rustler
3. ALL of Eagle's Nest
4. ALL of Ballroom/Baldy Shoulder
5. Baldy Chutes
6. Select parts of Catherine's
7. High Rustler/Hourglass/Regal
8. Nearly ALL of Wildcat (unlike Snowbird's lower runs, Alta's aren't too low)
9. Gunsight
10. Eddie's High Nowhere

 

[Marc_C]

I really haven't spent enough time at snowbird to know all the names of the spots there but on your Alta list below #1, 2, 3, half of 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10 all require what I'd consider (again, not that I personally mind) a decent amount of work to get to.

A gravity traverse, like the High T, is not work (but you do have to treat it like a run all on its own, and ski it rather than letting it ski you). There are just as many huge, long traverses at Snowbird as there are at Alta, and some are even longer. Getting to upper Mach Schnell for example, is a much longer and far more technical traverse than getting to High Rustler at Alta.

Can someone comment on how many of Snowbird's trails noted below are accessible either just off the lift or a very short traverse away?

That leaves for high-elevation north-facing terrain at Snowbird:
1. Great Scott
2. A couple of select lines in Mineral
3. Eddie's
4. Silver Fox
5. Mark Malou and the chutes just beyond the Knucklehead
6. Broomstick and STH (but not the rest of Gad 2)
7. Mach Schnell
8. Dalton's (upper only, not lower)

Of those, only 4 & 6 qualify by your criteria. Technically, Great Scott isn't far from the Tram either and only requires a tiny bit of traversing, it you can even call it that. But the 10' - 20' of mandatory air onto a rock studded near-50 degree slope of the very top entrance turns off a lot of people. So does the serious DFU territory and fixed ropes of the Rat's Nest entry. Even the Ladies' Entrance is someitmes rock studded and getting to it often leaves a little ptex in the rock garden that is the upper ridge of the Cirque. (The ridge is always rocky, no matter how much snow we get, thanks to the exposure to the scouring winds.)