Europe 24/25

jasoncapecod said:
We are booking the Dolomites in Sept
Anyone have any experience hiking etc?
This is all contingent on if The Orange lets Putin take over Europe
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I have visited the Alps 2x in the summer:
  • Swiss Alps
    • Jungfrau/Interlaken. Hiked Lauterbrunnen to Murren. Went lift-assisted mountain biking on First/Grindelwald.
    • Zermatt. One day hiking. One day, I went skiing on both Zermatt's and Cervinia's glaciers.
  • Salzburg/Kitzbuheler Alps/Hallstatt/Red Bull F1 Factory Tour
Loved both!


I skied the Stella Ronda/Val Gardena and Cortina areas last year, but they were almost more set up for summer visitors.

They have a great Dolomite Summer website:
https://www.dolomitisuperski.com/en/SuperSummer/Discover/Hike Galaxy

Funny, you can even do the Stella Ronda as a hike with chairlifts in the summer! All downhill hiking :)
www.dolomitisuperski.com

Dolomiti Hike Galaxy | Dolomiti Supersummer

www.dolomitisuperski.com www.dolomitisuperski.com

If you want to ride some lifts:
  • Marmaloda Cable Car to WW1 Museum
  • Sas Pordoi Cable Car to Sella Plateau
  • Cortina - 3 Cable Cars up to Tofana
However, you will likely also have to contend with heavy bike traffic. My biking UK friend tries to get there as much as possible -and so does the rest of the world's biking community.
 
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jamesdeluxe said:
Are these UKers at an alternate-universe 3V than the one @EMSC and crew are visiting? :icon-lol:


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Partially in a different universe. 3 Valleys got ~10cm of snow (up high only), 2 days after my ranting. Made a handful of terrain passable to almost decent, but I estimate only about 5% of the terrain overall. And of course widely scattered around the various resort areas. (not sure 4" in almost a month counts as a powder day, but certainly much better than having gotten nothing). Sorry I haven't posted yet. Crazy logistics and activity with 10 guys over the course of more than a week.

And per sbooker's post it snowed Saturday evening finally, but you'll see in my TR coming up that even that was a mixed blessing with some downsides for off-piste (but certainly still a huge plus to the trip).

Currently sitting in the airport, but United pre-texted everyone that internet is not likely to work on our flight so it be a bit longer before I can start posting much more.
 
Remember: Zermatt has no expert skiing and is, at best, mediocre.

However, given the snow year of 2023/24 (mid-winter) for a one-off visit, it is an understandable opinion. Zermatt can be dry and does not open its best/steepest terrain until mid-February (?), if not later. Other people visit with the same experience.

My Summer 2004 visit thoughts: beautiful place, but the non-glacier areas seem rocky as hell. Also, Zermatt's top glaciers were a bit flat, but Cervinia's were steeper. But I did not make a 30-minute YouTube video (since YT was not present, and influencers did not exist.)


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But then, in Winter 2017/18

It's just the axiom: snow & weather make the experience, not necessarily the place.

I cannot tell you how many people travel to Alaska to heliski and ski one or two days out of five. I bet this happens to 40% of all visitors. Was that the best time ever? Sitting around a remote lodge staring at each other? I am surprised there is not more of an Alaska sucks out there.

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EMSC said:
activity with 10 guys over the course of more than a week.
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I've been busting EMSC's balls about his Alps rant; however, I'm empathetic to a) being responsible for the logistics and enjoyment of ten people who were expecting a different experience (I wouldn't sign up for three people let alone ten!) and b) flying around the world to land in the midst of a long drought when he has mountains an hour or so away with generally strong snow preservation.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
I've been busting EMSC's balls about his Alps rant; however, I'm empathetic to his a) being responsible for the logistics and enjoyment of ten people who were expecting a different experience (I wouldn't sign up for three people let alone ten!) and b) flying around the world to land in the midst of a long drought when he has mountains an hour or so away with generally strong snow preservation.
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I would rather watch Paint Dry than manage the expectations of 10 guys in a foreign country. It's called White Lotus.

In Zermatt, my brother and I ate at a nice on-mountain lodge, Chez Verony, during a blizzard. He did his usual thing: takes the helmet off and puts on a baseball cap. In about 5 minutes, Greg says "Why am I getting all these dirty looks, WTF is wrong?" Me: Europeans would not wear a ball cap inside at a nice restaurant. You stand out - as very American. I don't care what you do (it's a bit humorous to me), but you will not change their behavior or looks. And eventually, they will get bored and move on. Have a drink.

When I went to Japan, we had an almost similar-sized group; things started great. But towards the end of the week, everyone had their own agenda: one wanted to ski tour, one stopped following the guide, one wanted to microdose constantly, one wanted to day drink in the lodge and take selfies with Japanese girls, others wanted to ski hard, others wanted brunch....typical, but a little chaotic. :)

I am sure how the US is withdrawing from global alliances, especially European ties, does not always bode well for 10 American guys at all times.
 
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ChrisC said:
I cannot tell you how many people travel to Alaska to heliski and ski one or two days out of five. I bet this happens to 40% of all visitors.
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Yes, 3 of the 4 times I did it. But I kept trying for awhile because the first Alaska trip yielded the best ski day of my life.

I would rather watch Paint Dry than manage the expectations of 10 guys in a foreign country. It's called White Lotus.
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Isn't that what you were doing in Val d'Isere in January 2024 the same time Liz, James and I were there?

The largest group trip we have ever organized was for the 2017 eclipse in Jackson: 57 tram tickets and lodging for 36 people. As with ski trips, people are of course obsessed with the weather. 11 people were skittish about being on Rendezvous Peak and left at 4AM to drive west into Idaho.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
Tony would've dismissed that idea out of hand
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No. I'm sure there was online info at the time of weather and snow coverage/terrain open. It was also December so little chance of the powder degrading over the course of the ski day. Recall that I set most of my multiday vertical foot records in SkiWelt/Kitzbuhel/Saalbach/Fieberbrunn in January 2017. Scroll to bottom of this page. I'm an amateur in this department. I think ChrisC surpassed many of these totals skiing Interior Northwest areas with slow lifts in 2021.
 
Tony Crocker said:
Isn't that what you were doing in Val d'Isere in January 2024 the same time Liz, James and I were there?

The largest group trip we have ever organized was for the 2017 eclipse in Jackson: 57 tram tickets and lodging for 36 people. As with ski trips, people are of course obsessed with the weather. 11 people were skittish about being on Rendezvous Peak and left at 4AM to drive west into Idaho.
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Yes! Hence, I had a guide for a week to serve as a buffer. Any bad piste or lunch spot was not my issue; it was the guide's poor suggestion.

Lunch choices, food, sun decks, and an ever-changing venue of apres-ski joints became important when there was not a ton of new snow. However, it was like skiing at Tahoe during a sunny, dry spell - which can be fun, too!

That's why I went out early. Working remotely from Europe for Pacific Time with an 8-hour time difference is pretty straightforward.
 
It's been a warm, dry 30 days in Europe. Major low-elevation resorts are almost closed. I monitor Gstaad for an eventual visit (a friend's uncle was the head of the Gstaad Ski School, so I have always been curious).

It looks awful for mid-March - more like conditions you would find in PA or NY for spring.

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Per the Euro weather sites, the southern Alps have had some recent significant storms, including the Dolomites. I saw Hohtalli open on Zermatt's website a few days ago. Has it been enough to make these places worthwhile?
 
ChrisC said:
I have visited the Alps 2x in the summer:
  • Swiss Alps
    • Jungfrau/Interlaken. Hiked Lauterbrunnen to Murren. Went lift-assisted mountain biking on First/Grindelwald.
    • Zermatt. One day hiking. One day, I went skiing on both Zermatt's and Cervinia's glaciers.
  • Salzburg/Kitzbuheler Alps/Hallstatt/Red Bull F1 Factory Tour
Loved both!


I skied the Stella Ronda/Val Gardena and Cortina areas last year, but they were almost more set up for summer visitors.

They have a great Dolomite Summer website:
https://www.dolomitisuperski.com/en/SuperSummer/Discover/Hike Galaxy

Funny, you can even do the Stella Ronda as a hike with chairlifts in the summer! All downhill hiking :)
www.dolomitisuperski.com

Dolomiti Hike Galaxy | Dolomiti Supersummer

www.dolomitisuperski.com www.dolomitisuperski.com

If you want to ride some lifts:
  • Marmaloda Cable Car to WW1 Museum
  • Sas Pordoi Cable Car to Sella Plateau
  • Cortina - 3 Cable Cars up to Tofana
However, you will likely also have to contend with heavy bike traffic. My biking UK friend tries to get there as much as possible -and so does the rest of the world's biking community.
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Thanks
I will def Mtb and will look into some of the hikes. I have been to zermatt summer and winter
We loved our summer trip hiking and skiing
 
jasoncapecod said:
Thanks
I will def Mtb and will look into some of the hikes. I have been to zermatt summer and winter
We loved our summer trip hiking and skiing
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My UK friend is a road biker. He will even bike about 10-20km each way to work. I see all his Strava rides. Road biking is so prevalent in Europe that you must watch for Peletons in the Dolomites.

I just looked at Dolomite Mountain Biking. You can do a lift-assisted Sella Ronda. All the ski lifts run in the summer. Assume you could get around even faster than on skis.

www.valgardena.it

Mountain biking dolomites: Val Gardena is top destination!

If you’re a mountain biking enthusiast, Val Gardena will capture your heart. Plan your trip around the tours, trails, and bike rental shops listed here.
www.valgardena.it www.valgardena.it


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Tony Crocker said:
Per the Euro weather sites, the southern Alps have had some recent significant storms, including the Dolomites. I saw Hohtalli open on Zermatt's website a few days ago. Has it been enough to make these places worthwhile?
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Unfortunately, I do not think either area will make a worthwhile comeback, but you never know the size of spring storms.

1. Dolomites.
While Guide Francesco Tremolada left Engelberg and returned to the Dolomites, nothing looks worthwhile. He instead wrote a report about skiing in Sicily on Mt Etna: https://www.proguide.it/en/ski-touring-on-an-active-volcano-etna-sicily/

2. Zermatt.
I have not seen most of its yellow itineraries open this entire winter, especially the Rothorn ones. Also, only 1 out of 3 opened on Hohtalli.

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You can look at the webcams: Rothorn -> Hohtalli. I can see a lot of rocks.

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But the biggest issue is just what a bad year it's been in Zermatt. (Cervinia seems much better with the Aosta storms).

Just look at the Swiss government snowfall site for Gornergrat: https://whiterisk.ch/en/conditions/measurements/station/IMIS/GOR2

Winter 2024/5 - tracking the 32 y Min

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Conversely, winter 2023/25 - Look how things took off in the Spring!

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3. Saas Fee.

There is NEVER a bad time to visit Saas Fee. It is so glaciated that you can never go off-piste. I would put Saas-Fee in the group with Zermatt, Chamonix, and Jungfrau as the most scenic in Europe.


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ChrisC said:
Unfortunately, I do not think either area will make a worthwhile comeback, but you never know the size of spring storms.
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Between the sun angle and warmish temps permeating the alps already I would suspect only a few areas will get to or back to 'good' based on what I saw.
 
My UK MBA Friend will go to Cervinia with his family for Easter vacation, as he's done for the last 4 years. His wife is Italian (Sicilian), so she loves it.

However, their expectations are well-groomed slopes softening into Spring conditions, lazy afternoons on a sunny terrace, and maybe a venture into the off-piste. Snow is a bonus. For one day, they will upgrade their lift pass to an International ticket to go over to Zermatt. They previously went to Obergurgl, Austria, for Easter. I was going to join them one year, but COVID got in the way.

Neither resort is overly difficult, but it's family skiing.

Otherwise, I have skied with my MBA mate David at La Grave, Courmayeur, Engelberg, Squaw, etc. However, when his wife was involved in business school, we/students would spend some afternoons at the pool at Squaw since it was March, sunny, nearly 60F - why bother skiing?


On another note, another NYC Banker friend just spent four days with his firm in Jackson Hole (yesterday). They received four feet of snow in four days. Statistically, they should have been miserable on sun-baked glop.
 
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ChrisC said:
four days with his firm in Jackson Hole (yesterday). Statistically, they should have been miserable on sun-baked glop.
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That's what they would have had March 8-12. Then it snowed the 4 feet March 14-18. If they were there based upon the weather forecast, more power to them. If booked far in advance, they were insanely lucky.

The same storm cycle snowed 13-16 inches at Steamboat, and that was not enough to bury the prior melt/frozen subsurface. By contrast Copper and A-Basin got a measly 6 inches from those storms and both have nearly all winter snow and far superior skiing now due to their altitude/exposure advantage. This week has been an object lesson in the importance of altitude/exposure in March that both Fraser and I have been telling people for years.
 
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