Europe 24/25

Tony Crocker said:
The worst case scenario in the Alps is the bad weather/bad vis days, especially if there is little terrain below tree line (Val Thorens being a good example) or if it's raining at low elevation. With this kind of forecast, we take off in the car and do something other than ski. That was Liz' first trip in 2001, and if you are on a typical one week package deal you are kind of stuck.
Click to expand...
Reading all of the TRs from the last few days and how this discussion has evolved I think ultimately I come back to this point as being where I fall. I understand EMSC's feelings on the conditions, especially having local mountains to compare to. But as a New Yorker, who could equally get skunked in terms of snow quality on a preplanned trip out west (as I did a few weeks ago in Big Sky) or to Europe, I still think only a poor vis day in Europe could truly spoil my time. I have now had multiple trips to Europe effected by warm weather and low quality snow. Ultimately I still get a kick out of everything else and a blue bird day cruising and eating/drinking around Europe at this point in my life probably interests me more than a powder day out west. I understand why on a forum like this that might be the minority opinion and certainly understand why anyone getting poor vis in Europe would come away thinking it to be a horribly overrated experience.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
skiandgolfnut said:
I still get a kick out of everything else and a blue bird day cruising and eating/drinking around Europe at this point in my life probably interests me more than a powder day out west
Click to expand...
Never argue with a powder day no matter where it is (I've had memorable ones even at small joints like Greek Peak, NY); however, as a non-expert who doesn't require badass terrain, I share this general view.

skiandgolfnut said:
only a poor vis day in Europe could truly spoil my time
Click to expand...
In addition to poor vis, a spoiler for me is skiing at many Euro industrial resorts during a long drought with thousands of skiers compacting the pistes into concrete (to be fair, I've experienced that in the U.S., both east and west). There are exceptions such as Serre Chevalier. That said; as a consolation prize, the views are always sublime, the on-mountain food far better and less expensive than the U.S., and it's a unique experience to "travel" many miles across lift-served terrain. Off the top of my head, the widest I've experienced is 11 miles at Hochkönig and the 3V followed by Val d'Isere in second place with ten miles.

skiandgolfnut said:
I understand why on a forum like this that might be the minority opinion
Click to expand...
FTO is a very, euh, intimate forum these days -- 22 users who've posted at least three times this season (I just counted!) -- so don't assume that it's a minority opinion. :eusa-naughty:
 
jamesdeluxe said:
thousands of skiers compacting the pistes into concrete (to be fair, I've experienced that in the U.S., both east and west). There are exceptions such as Serre Chevalier.
Click to expand...
The crowded pistes are definitely pretty brutal. Not just the snow quality but the sheer amount of people—it’s not even skiing sometimes. What goes on at St Anton is pretty crazy. I’m very much on the opposite circuit as you, trying to hit all the larger places that I’ve never been to and hopefully one day then move onto the smaller. I’ve found that by targeting places farther from the airport, places that generally have a reputation of being fancier, hitting secondary mountains within complexes, skiing weekdays and avoiding the euro school holidays at all costs this can be mitigated. IE zermatt, st moritz (particularly corvatsch), lech (over st Anton). Same reason why aspen is tolerable holiday weeks and summit county gets clobbered.

And Ill add, while it might be harder to time and happen less frequently and consistently than out west, hitting Europe just right (visibility, snow, crowds) remains an absurd value proposition and offers cat/heli like off piste experiences without needing to do much heavy lifting. I think for those of us on here that have had that experience a few times we understand the potential upside that exists when the stars align.
 
I don't try to encourage East Coast friends to come to Tahoe unless you can set expectations. This winter, 24/25 would have been bad >>50% of the time: lack of snow early, crowds/snow at holidays, no snow for a month, etc.

Europe is often more consistent than CA (or at least on par) - maybe not coverage, but snow preservation, etc. Even with a base, high temps (& moisture) can kill finding any chalky snow at Squaw-Alpine except on maybe 10% of areas.

I will finally use up my IKON single tickets this weekend at Palisades Tahoe. This week, 50" of decent-quality snow motivated me.
 
ChrisC said:
I don't try to encourage East Coast friends to come to Tahoe unless you can set expectations. This winter, 24/25 would have been bad >>50% of the time: lack of snow early, crowds/snow at holidays, no snow for a month, etc.

Europe is often more consistent than CA (or at least on par) - maybe not coverage, but snow preservation, etc. Even with a base, high temps (& moisture) can kill finding any chalky snow at Squaw-Alpine except on maybe 10% of areas.
Click to expand...
I have strongly suspected this. I have always cherry picked my days to ski Palisades, and to some extent Heavenly also. Thus Liz has a somewhat unrealistic rosy view of both areas. I know that the Palisades base has had a lot of rain this season.The March storms have really been the only good ones at Tahoe to low elevation. At the end of this season I'll publish a graph of low vs. high elevation snowfall at Palisades.

Every decade Mammoth's snow conditions advantage over most of Tahoe seems to grow.

I should try to publish some Euro vs, western North America comparisons. I think I did that for snowfall standard deviations but don't recall where.
 
I finished up my time with Snoworks on Friday just gone. It was warm with no freeze at 2000 metres overnight. It was overcast and windy so conditions weren’t great.
Euan took us to north facing pitches with rock features. We were intending to ski the ‘north face of the Borsat’ which involves a short hike. I’ve never skied that route and was very keen to do so but they shut the Borsat lift due to high winds just as we were about to get on.
You people are all experts and obviously don’t need the little bits of instruction with your guiding so Snoworks would probably not suit you all personally but if you know a gaper who is looking to ski off piste in relative safety but at the same time have fun and get some pointers to improve I can’t recommend them highly enough.
IMG_1940.jpeg


IMG_1941.jpeg


IMG_1942.jpeg


IMG_1943.jpeg


IMG_1944.jpeg


IMG_1945.jpeg


IMG_1946.jpeg

^ I really like skiing through and surrounded by rock features and gullies.
On another note. For the third time I have suffered a badly ulcerated lower lip after staying in France at 2000 metres elevation. I have never experienced it on many other ski holidays. Kylie thinks it is a combination of atmospheric conditions coupled with wind. I just can’t work it out because I’ve never experienced the problem in North America or Japan even when staying at elevation (Aspen, Mammoth etc).
Anyway we are now in Avignon doing some tourist stuff. It’s a lovely walled medieval city on the Rhone.

IMG_1960.jpeg


IMG_1957.jpeg


IMG_1953.jpeg


IMG_1962.jpeg

^The ski resort hashtag signs are now spreading to towns it seems.
 
We were in the south of France last October for a wedding and spent the better part of a day in Avignon. Yes, it's a beautiful medieval city with substantial walls and definitely worth a visit.
 
Sbooker said:
You people are all experts
Click to expand...
Not true. A number of us don't qualify.

Sbooker said:
^The ski resort hashtag signs are now spreading to towns it seems.
Click to expand...
I'm not a fan of these signs; however, they're clearly a hit with tourists so mission accomplished. I've never made it to Avignon, looks nice!
IMG_1962.jpeg


You can't beat the ski-in/out access to excellent terrain and snow but wow, you can't put lipstick on this village.
Tignes.jpeg
 
Tony Crocker said:
Val d’Isere vs. Tignes for ambience is sort of like Aspen vs. Snowmass. In both cases you pay up to stay in the historic resort town.
Click to expand...
Unless you’re a tight wad that is. And Tignes has a great vibe going on.
But I do agree on Aspen/Snowmass although with young kids we had a great time staying at Snowmass.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top