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Anonymous
Guest
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS USE A HELMET!!!!!!
Mt. Waterman and Snowcrest/Kratka Ridge
- Thread starter Admin
- Start date
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Anonymous
Guest
I too am hugely interested in what is going on with Mt. Waterman. If someone from Angeles Crest Resorts would speak up, we might be able to get to the bottom of this. If money is the issue I am fully capable putting together a group of investors to get the lifts up and running. There is no doubt a need for this mountain. I could see bringing regular shuttle service for backcountry drops off the backside, a good terrain park on top, and even some snowcat excursions.
Who can join me in this vision? Let's get Waterman going!
Who can join me in this vision? Let's get Waterman going!
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Anonymous
Guest
Rode there about 3 weeks ago, great place, gotta know the people in the know, the place is just awesome on a good powder day, people up there are way cool.
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Anonymous
Guest
If anyone is gonna take waterman it is going to be the forest service at this time if anyone were to buy waterman, they would just lose money because people would rather go to either Mt. High or Big Bear, due to their terrain parks, advanced snowmaking, and grooming. If someone were to buy waterman they would have to install advanced snowmaking systems, get bombardier groomers, snowcats, terrain parks, and a genious in marketing. This all sad, but as many people hate to admit it is true. 
Nope, there's not even close to enough water available for snowmaking to make a difference on Waterman's steep natural terrain or to build terrain parks that could compete with Big Bear/Mt. High. The area has to be run on a no debt (that means dirt cheap purchase price if it's for sale), low expense model like Mt. Baldy or Mad River Glen.
The question is: with the change in SoCal demographics, is there room for 2 such areas to remain viable in the region? Baldy is so much bigger that I'm not sure.
The question is: with the change in SoCal demographics, is there room for 2 such areas to remain viable in the region? Baldy is so much bigger that I'm not sure.
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Anonymous
Guest
It all comes down to money.
It is greatest place to ski, there is no crowds, not many people know about it and it is natural, but for those same reasons this place can not make money.
I hope it will open soon.[/img]
It is greatest place to ski, there is no crowds, not many people know about it and it is natural, but for those same reasons this place can not make money.
I hope it will open soon.[/img]
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Anonymous
Guest
One other single chair operated close to Seattle at what was called Ski Acres, and is now Summit Central, part of four merged ski areas at 3000" Snoqualmie Pass, an hour east of Seattle on I-90. I think that single was replaced in the 1960s by what is still a fixed double.
Interesting El Nino season in the Northwest for 2004-05, and it feels like the light seasons Southern California often has. Nearly all Washington State ski areas are closed, and most have been all season. And snowmaking doesn't help if mountain temps often run above freezing,a s they have during this very light snow year.
We're glad you're getting hammered with good snow. I skied Baldy once in the 1970s and marveled at how close it is to Claremont and LA. What a resource, when there's snow! I wish I could have skied Waterman: it always sounded like the best and most authentic area down there.
Cheers,
Tom Robinson
near Seattle
Interesting El Nino season in the Northwest for 2004-05, and it feels like the light seasons Southern California often has. Nearly all Washington State ski areas are closed, and most have been all season. And snowmaking doesn't help if mountain temps often run above freezing,a s they have during this very light snow year.
We're glad you're getting hammered with good snow. I skied Baldy once in the 1970s and marveled at how close it is to Claremont and LA. What a resource, when there's snow! I wish I could have skied Waterman: it always sounded like the best and most authentic area down there.
Cheers,
Tom Robinson
near Seattle
Through New Year's this had the potential to be one of SoCal's greatest seasons. The early season was somewhat of a tease because the October snow melted out completely over the next 3 weeks, and the late November snow's base was only maintained where it could be supplemented with snowmaking. The storms of Christmas through Jan. 3 were the ones that got everything wide open including the OB stashes at Baldy.
Then came the tropical deluge of Jan. 9-11, as much as 15 inches of rain to the top of some ski areas. The 3-5 foot base was generally too deep to be washed away, but much natural terrain was closed for dangerous surface conditions. The snowmaking areas were in pretty good shape by late January.
Last Friday's storm had fluctuating snow levels and added up to another foot or so, but also a fair amount of rain. I don't know yet whether the natural terrain was improved by this.
I update SoCal conditions each week at http://bestsnow.net/cal0405.htm .
And also my historical chart: http://bestsnow.net/scalhist.htm .
The current North American season looks like a classic El Nino, but in fact it's mostly coincidence. The El Nino was always weak, and now it's dissipating. The NW season can best be described as "s%!t happens." The most extreme North American season of our lifetime, 1976-77 (awful over most of the West, stellar in the Northeast), was also neutral with respect to El Nino/La Nina.
I am also coming around to the view that I would not be offended if Mt. Waterman survived as a semiprivate ski area, as some have speculated here. After Berthoud Pass was unused for a couple of years, the Forest Service dismantled the lifts. So if Waterman is not viable as a "normal ski area", better to survive in some form than be closed forever.
Then came the tropical deluge of Jan. 9-11, as much as 15 inches of rain to the top of some ski areas. The 3-5 foot base was generally too deep to be washed away, but much natural terrain was closed for dangerous surface conditions. The snowmaking areas were in pretty good shape by late January.
Last Friday's storm had fluctuating snow levels and added up to another foot or so, but also a fair amount of rain. I don't know yet whether the natural terrain was improved by this.
I update SoCal conditions each week at http://bestsnow.net/cal0405.htm .
And also my historical chart: http://bestsnow.net/scalhist.htm .
The current North American season looks like a classic El Nino, but in fact it's mostly coincidence. The El Nino was always weak, and now it's dissipating. The NW season can best be described as "s%!t happens." The most extreme North American season of our lifetime, 1976-77 (awful over most of the West, stellar in the Northeast), was also neutral with respect to El Nino/La Nina.
I am also coming around to the view that I would not be offended if Mt. Waterman survived as a semiprivate ski area, as some have speculated here. After Berthoud Pass was unused for a couple of years, the Forest Service dismantled the lifts. So if Waterman is not viable as a "normal ski area", better to survive in some form than be closed forever.
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Anonymous
Guest
Mt. Waterman unlikely to open
By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell , Staff Writer
Mount Waterman remained closed during the recent storms, and it's unlikely it will open at all this season, according to U.S. Forest Service officials.
Shawn Lawler, the special use permit administrator for the forest service, said the ski area, north of La Canada Flintridge in the San Gabriel Mountains, isn't open because it doesn't have operating permits from the state to run its chair lifts.
Ski resorts must be inspected every year to make sure equipment such as the lifts are safe. Once the inspection is done and any safety issues resolved, resorts receive a permit to operate through the season.
That usually takes place in the summer to give ski areas enough time to fix any equipment, if necessary, she said.
Although the forest service is meeting with the owners of the resort next week, Lawler doubts there will be enough time to turn the situation around.
"It's not something you can turn around and do quickly,' she said.
Neighboring Snowcrest, formerly Kratka Ridge, with the same owners, is in the same situation, she said.
Mount Waterman, a small area that relies on natural snowfall to open, was also closed during the 2003-2004 season for the same reason and only opened for a brief period the season before.
One of the owners is Barry Stubblefield, a Southern California businessman, said Lawler. He did not return e-mails on the status of the resort.
Keith Tatsukawa, with the Mount Waterman Ski Patrol has been deluged with e-mails and phone calls from skiers and snowboarders eager for the ski area to open.
He put Stubblefield's e-mail on the patrol Web site so people could write to him for answers.
"We haven't heard if or when,' he said.
A group of Southern California businessmen, including Stubblefield, purchased Waterman and Snowcrest in 1999.
At the time they planned to add 16 to 17 new chairlifts, build up the acreage between Waterman and Snowcrest, install extensive snowmaking and improve base and parking facilities.
It never happened.
Waterman had fewer problems in its early years, when Lynn Newcomb and his father built the first rope tow at the area in 1939. They began operating the first chairlift in Southern California on New Year's Day, 1942.
The chairlift broke down that day and riders had to jump off, but the resort continued operations.
Newcomb was at the helm for all but a two-year period when it was sold to to two San Gabriel Valley businessmen in the 1990s. Those new owners returned the resort to Newcomb when their ambitious plans for snowmaking and other improvements at the ski area fell through.
Kratka Ridge was also owned at one time by John and Jacqueline Steely. They also had far-reaching goals, but the lack of snowfall in the 1990s was bad for their business.
By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell , Staff Writer
Mount Waterman remained closed during the recent storms, and it's unlikely it will open at all this season, according to U.S. Forest Service officials.
Shawn Lawler, the special use permit administrator for the forest service, said the ski area, north of La Canada Flintridge in the San Gabriel Mountains, isn't open because it doesn't have operating permits from the state to run its chair lifts.
Ski resorts must be inspected every year to make sure equipment such as the lifts are safe. Once the inspection is done and any safety issues resolved, resorts receive a permit to operate through the season.
That usually takes place in the summer to give ski areas enough time to fix any equipment, if necessary, she said.
Although the forest service is meeting with the owners of the resort next week, Lawler doubts there will be enough time to turn the situation around.
"It's not something you can turn around and do quickly,' she said.
Neighboring Snowcrest, formerly Kratka Ridge, with the same owners, is in the same situation, she said.
Mount Waterman, a small area that relies on natural snowfall to open, was also closed during the 2003-2004 season for the same reason and only opened for a brief period the season before.
One of the owners is Barry Stubblefield, a Southern California businessman, said Lawler. He did not return e-mails on the status of the resort.
Keith Tatsukawa, with the Mount Waterman Ski Patrol has been deluged with e-mails and phone calls from skiers and snowboarders eager for the ski area to open.
He put Stubblefield's e-mail on the patrol Web site so people could write to him for answers.
"We haven't heard if or when,' he said.
A group of Southern California businessmen, including Stubblefield, purchased Waterman and Snowcrest in 1999.
At the time they planned to add 16 to 17 new chairlifts, build up the acreage between Waterman and Snowcrest, install extensive snowmaking and improve base and parking facilities.
It never happened.
Waterman had fewer problems in its early years, when Lynn Newcomb and his father built the first rope tow at the area in 1939. They began operating the first chairlift in Southern California on New Year's Day, 1942.
The chairlift broke down that day and riders had to jump off, but the resort continued operations.
Newcomb was at the helm for all but a two-year period when it was sold to to two San Gabriel Valley businessmen in the 1990s. Those new owners returned the resort to Newcomb when their ambitious plans for snowmaking and other improvements at the ski area fell through.
Kratka Ridge was also owned at one time by John and Jacqueline Steely. They also had far-reaching goals, but the lack of snowfall in the 1990s was bad for their business.
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Anonymous
Guest
County officials and Mt. Waterman Ski Patrol members confirmed Wednesday that Barry Stubblefield, a part owner of Mt. Waterman ski area in the Angeles National Forest, died while skiing at the resort last Friday.
Stubblefield and two ski patrol members were skiing Friday afternoon when he fell and tumbled out of control until he hit a tree, said Sgt. Don Hudalla of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Crescenta Valley Station.
According to the ski patrol Web site, Stubblefield was 48. His passions in life included family, skiing and playing basketball, and he had recently coached his youngest son's soccer team through an undefeated season.
A group of Southern California businessmen, including Stubblefield, purchased Waterman and neighboring Snowcrest ski area in 1999.
Stubblefield and two ski patrol members were skiing Friday afternoon when he fell and tumbled out of control until he hit a tree, said Sgt. Don Hudalla of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Crescenta Valley Station.
According to the ski patrol Web site, Stubblefield was 48. His passions in life included family, skiing and playing basketball, and he had recently coached his youngest son's soccer team through an undefeated season.
A group of Southern California businessmen, including Stubblefield, purchased Waterman and neighboring Snowcrest ski area in 1999.
Disclaimer: The previous two messages were posted by an unregistered guest, and were apparently copied and pasted from an unidentified news source. First Tracks!! Online is not responsible, nor does it condone, the posting of copywritten work to its Liftlines user forums, but some actions of users are beyond the scope of its control.
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Anonymous
Guest
Hey..new to the forum, but familiar with the great site by Tony...I work in the Angeles Forest and occasionally get reliable information on things going on up there.
Regarding Waterman..yes, those last 2 articles are fairly accurate, but a few mistakes....although Waterman did certify chair 1 last march, which is good for a year..but there were some other issues to resolve as well.
Yes, barry Stubblefield was an owner along with his brother, and did die while skiing at the area...
..btw, apparently a helmet would not had done a thing to save the man...
anyway, I got info that there is 10-12 feet of new snow at the top of the hill(on top of a 3-6 foot base)...this information is via cellphone from the caretakers that still live up there who had to dig their way to the warming hut!..crazy stuff. The road is closed again about 4 miles before Waterman due to too much snow..
No more info on opening, and It isn't likely going to happen again this year. (which most of us probably realized).. there is going to be some of the best spring skiing ever in socal this year!..unfortunately, Watermn lift served won;t be part of it..
I hope to contribute more to the forum!
Regarding Waterman..yes, those last 2 articles are fairly accurate, but a few mistakes....although Waterman did certify chair 1 last march, which is good for a year..but there were some other issues to resolve as well.
Yes, barry Stubblefield was an owner along with his brother, and did die while skiing at the area...
..btw, apparently a helmet would not had done a thing to save the man...
anyway, I got info that there is 10-12 feet of new snow at the top of the hill(on top of a 3-6 foot base)...this information is via cellphone from the caretakers that still live up there who had to dig their way to the warming hut!..crazy stuff. The road is closed again about 4 miles before Waterman due to too much snow..
No more info on opening, and It isn't likely going to happen again this year. (which most of us probably realized).. there is going to be some of the best spring skiing ever in socal this year!..unfortunately, Watermn lift served won;t be part of it..
I hope to contribute more to the forum!
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Anonymous
Guest
I did something wrong to still appear as a guest (I registered), but my nickname is snowave..
Snowwave, two things that you need to do to posted as a registered member after submitting your registration:
1. Confirm your email receipt. (You've done that already.)
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If you don't see 2.b., and instead see "Log Out" you're logged in. You may avoid either step 2 above by checking the box to keep you logged in on your computer, which is accomplished via an innocuous cookie.
Welcome!
1. Confirm your email receipt. (You've done that already.)
2. a. Log in at the bottom of the first page when you enter, or
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Anonymous
Guest
Just wanted to say thanks to Lynn for all those years in mid 70's through the late 80"s. We never had money in the early days so Lynn let us load chairs or help Gene at ski school in exchange for a ticket. Miss all the old Buds-David, Tory, Danny,Claudine and all the other locals
Kevin in Dallas
Kevin in Dallas
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Anonymous
Guest
Oh boy no mt. waterman/ kratka ridge. Time flys. Does anyone know anything about it. This is the fourth most wet winter in 100 years. Is the cross country even open. I guess I will have to drive up there and see. What a waste....
Snow Plow Feb. 26, 2005 :
Snow Plow Feb. 26, 2005 :
There's tons of snow up there right now in San Gabriels..up to 12 feet..however, as of today, the road is still closed at the 6,000 ft mark- (as Cal-Trans tries to clear the road further up), about 4 miles before Waterman is where this location is..there is about 3-4 ft + of snow at the gate closure..I took a snowshowe walk up there last week..snow was a bti heavy, but it was gorgeous.
edit: found these recent pictures of Mt. Waterman on the Mammoth forum..
fricken amazing!!!!
http://community.webshots.com/album/284953918DCgYRM/0
edit: found these recent pictures of Mt. Waterman on the Mammoth forum..
fricken amazing!!!!
http://community.webshots.com/album/284953918DCgYRM/0
elmcompany
New member
ANYONE with any iformation or emails of the owners of snowcrest please contact me, i am VERY interested in purchasing snowcrest/kratka ridge in its current state. I am not expecting to make money off of this purchase. :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: PLEASE CONTACT ME
Coincidentally I just tried to update my info last night. I found this blog from the still active ski patrol: http://x.mtwatermanpatrol.org/wordpress/ .
If you scroll down, you will find that the chair inspections have probably been done, and thus Mt. Waterman is likely to operate this season, natural snow permitting, if only to draw interest by prospective purchasers.
Kratka is dead. Angeles Crest Resorts pocketed whatever insurance settlement they got from the February 2001 avalanche (wrecked the old single chair) and December 2001 fire (burned base lodge to the ground) and never contemplated rebuilding.
If you scroll down, you will find that the chair inspections have probably been done, and thus Mt. Waterman is likely to operate this season, natural snow permitting, if only to draw interest by prospective purchasers.
Kratka is dead. Angeles Crest Resorts pocketed whatever insurance settlement they got from the February 2001 avalanche (wrecked the old single chair) and December 2001 fire (burned base lodge to the ground) and never contemplated rebuilding.