Mt. Waterman and Snowcrest/Kratka Ridge
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schubwa
New member
I joined Kratka Ridge Jr. Race Team almost 40 years ago. Jimmy Morning, then living in Santa Monica, was our coach. Ray and Tommy Hensley were on the team as their parents were the owners at the time. I was a new skier but was improving fast (I was 14)yet still the joke of my more experienced teammates. I met a lot of great future skiers who were on that rag-tag group of young athletes.
I have very fond memories of skiing at Kratka. Most local LA skiers would put down that little area but it had a good pitch and would always be in a more favored position to receive more snow. I vividly remember hiking in a NE direction off the top (of the only chair) to get great OB corn down to the highway in late April during the legendary "Winter of 69".
Siggy Vogel was an American born to German parents and was also on the race team at Kratka (everyone always mis-pronounced it Krak-ta Ridge). We were the same age and both drew low numbers in the "lottery" and were on our way to SE Asia. Turns out Siggy gets drafted and the Army finds out he speaks German and sends him to a base in Garmisch (in the German Alps). Siggy spent his tour teaching draftees from Kentucky how to ski!
Since I'd done a year at LA Pierce College (in Woodland Hills), I stumbled upon a loophole in the draft law and continued to ski SoCal. Mt. Baldy became my new love and soon after college I left for Mammoth Mountain where I taught/raced for over 15 years.
I haven't skied Kratka since those early years but know it still gets good there! I consider myself lucky to have been part of it.
I have very fond memories of skiing at Kratka. Most local LA skiers would put down that little area but it had a good pitch and would always be in a more favored position to receive more snow. I vividly remember hiking in a NE direction off the top (of the only chair) to get great OB corn down to the highway in late April during the legendary "Winter of 69".
Siggy Vogel was an American born to German parents and was also on the race team at Kratka (everyone always mis-pronounced it Krak-ta Ridge). We were the same age and both drew low numbers in the "lottery" and were on our way to SE Asia. Turns out Siggy gets drafted and the Army finds out he speaks German and sends him to a base in Garmisch (in the German Alps). Siggy spent his tour teaching draftees from Kentucky how to ski!
Since I'd done a year at LA Pierce College (in Woodland Hills), I stumbled upon a loophole in the draft law and continued to ski SoCal. Mt. Baldy became my new love and soon after college I left for Mammoth Mountain where I taught/raced for over 15 years.
I haven't skied Kratka since those early years but know it still gets good there! I consider myself lucky to have been part of it.
Any news on Waterman? Was really a shame that they couldn't open last season. The Waterman Ski Patrol blog seems pretty static, and no news on the SoCalSki server.
I never got to ski Waterman or Kratka, but I also have a real interest in "lost" ski areas, so I'm hoping against hope that Waterman will open so I can try a few runs. In the meanwhile, Baldy is calling...
cranbo
I never got to ski Waterman or Kratka, but I also have a real interest in "lost" ski areas, so I'm hoping against hope that Waterman will open so I can try a few runs. In the meanwhile, Baldy is calling...
cranbo
incidentally, if anyone is familiar with Wikipedia, you can contribute to the entries for Kratka Ridge & Mount Waterman at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratka_Ridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Waterman
Just click the "Edit This Page" link at the top of the page.
Wikipedia has a version control feature enabled, so any "vandalism" or unrelated points can easily be removed/rolled back.
-cranbo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratka_Ridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Waterman
Just click the "Edit This Page" link at the top of the page.
Wikipedia has a version control feature enabled, so any "vandalism" or unrelated points can easily be removed/rolled back.
-cranbo
see the other topic regarding recent Waterman news..
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=1590
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=1590
I just corrected some info in the Wikipedia.
Tony,
Thanks for the updates. I noticed this in the Wikipedia entry at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Waterman
"A skier named Jon Burr is trying to start a foundation called the Waterman foundation. He hopes to raise enough money by June to buy the resort, along with about 5000 people who will all vote in the resorts decisions, and will all receive lifetime season passes."
Do you know how to get in touch with Jon? I'd like to help with this in whatever way I can.
--cranbo
Thanks for the updates. I noticed this in the Wikipedia entry at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Waterman
"A skier named Jon Burr is trying to start a foundation called the Waterman foundation. He hopes to raise enough money by June to buy the resort, along with about 5000 people who will all vote in the resorts decisions, and will all receive lifetime season passes."
Do you know how to get in touch with Jon? I'd like to help with this in whatever way I can.
--cranbo
Tom Moriarty
New member
I have contacted a lawyer that was an avid Mt. Waterman skier about starting a 501C non-profit organization to create a Mt. Waterman Foundation similar to what they did at Mt. Ashland.
I will keep this board updated on progress.
Tom Moriarty
TomMoriarty@HomeSmart-Inland.com
I will keep this board updated on progress.
Tom Moriarty
TomMoriarty@HomeSmart-Inland.com
jkamien
Member
Mad River Glen used to do the same thing with blankets. They still have the ponchos stored away somewhere, but it requires two additional personnel to run the lift - one to load blankets at the top, and one to offload them at the bottom, so providing blankets became too expensive for the coop.
JimG.
New member
jkamien":1qt7xbt0 said:
Oh lordy I remember days when I was a kid on both of those single lifts when I froze my nuts off! Especially at Mansfield on a cold, windy day. Those blankets helped a little, but not much.
Let's all dedicate a round of our favorite beverages to modern ski clothing!
Tom Moriarty
New member
I heard from the Forest Service District Ranger that Angeles Crest Resorts apparently have a buyer and they will give a 5 year permit or more depending on the buyer.
Sounds like Waterman/Kratka may have a chance of living on!
Sounds like Waterman/Kratka may have a chance of living on!
Tom Moriarty":3j7zswbu said:
That would be great news..PM me if you want to share more info.. I'll try to get more info this week.. was up by Waterman today and it was oh so beautiful.. all the snowplayers were booted down below 6,000 ft and it was empty up top.. probably a good 12-15+ of new at the base at Waterman.
Didn't get any official news today, but a fairly reliable source told me that a deal is indeed in the works, but not finalized. I was also told that Lynn Newcomb was on the front of the Pasadena Star yesterday along with a story about Waterman.. I havn't been able to find a copy yet.
snowave,
thx for this info!
Here's a link to the article:
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/search/ci_3593835
"Mount Waterman ski resort faces uncertain future
By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell Staff Writer MOUNT WATERMAN -
Pasadena Star News
Article Launched: 03/12/2006 12:00 AM PST
There are no long lines at the lift ticket office, no vehicles parked bumper-to-bumper on Highway 2, no parka-clad skiers and snowboarders hopping onto the chairlift for the ride to the top of the mountain.
The only signs of life at Mount Waterman this ski season are hawks circling above the tall pines, squirrels running across the highway, and a white-haired man who stands at the base of the lifts looking up at the steep snow-covered mountain face.
But just wait until next season, says 85-year-old Lynn Newcomb, the former owner of the long-closed ski resort.
Newcomb and Rick Metcalf, a Southern California real estate developer and former Waterman skier, are negotiating to buy back the ski resort, which Newcomb sold in 1999 to a group of Southern California businessmen.
"I'm older and shorter now, but I still want to keep a hand in it," Newcomb said Thursday as he walked across the icy base area.
If his plans work out, he and Metcalf hope to improve the facilities, including renovating the resort's small restaurant, located within the warming hut and the ticket office. They also plan to bring up to standard the three chairlifts, which must pass state inspection. But running Mount Waterman again could be as challenging as skiing down the area's steep front face. Newcomb decided to get back into the ski resort business after he heard that the U.S. Forest Service had revoked the operating permits for Mount Waterman and neighboring Snowcrest, formerly Kratka Ridge.
Under orders from the Forest Service, the current owners must vacate the premises by June or the whole resort could be demolished.
Alarmed by that news, Newcomb contacted Metcalf, a Del Mar real estate developer and longtime skier, who had expressed an interest in purchasing the ski area.
Newcomb told him there were plans to wipe Waterman out and that something needed to be done, said Metcalf.
"I felt like I wanted to save it because it's such an unbelievable hill and I wanted future generations to enjoy it," Metcalf said.
Jody Noiron, forest supervisor for the Angeles National Forest, confirmed that the Mount Waterman permits were revoked for non-compliance reasons, including a lack of operating permits from the state to operate the chairlifts.
The current owners have until the summer to remove all facilities, including the chairlifts, she said.
If the facilities are not removed by the deadline, they become the property of the U.S. government. But the owners are still responsible for all the costs involved in their removal, she said.
If the owners choose to sell the resort before that time, it will be a private transaction, she added. The Forest Service would get involved again if new owners apply to the agency for special-use permits, she said.
Chuck Ojala, one of the current owners, said there have been negotiations with Metcalf, but no deal has been struck.
"It's in a state of flux with nothing decided on," he said. "All I know is everyone wants to save it because it is a historic Southern California ski site."
The resort dates back to 1939, when Newcomb and his father built the first rope tow at the area, about 34 miles north of La Ca ada Flintridge in the San Gabriel Mountains.
They began operating the first chairlift in Southern California on New Year's Day 1942.
Newcomb remained at the helm of the resort for all but a two-year period in the early 1990s, when he sold it to two San Gabriel Valley businessmen.
When their ambitious plans for snowmaking and other improvements fell through, the businessmen returned it to Newcomb.
He continued running it until 1999, when a new group of about 11 Southern California businessman purchased it and neighboring Snowcrest.
The new owners formed a company, Angeles Crest Resorts, and also announced big plans to bring change to the resort, including adding 16 to 17 chairlifts, building up the acreage between Waterman and Snowcrest, installing extensive snowmaking and improving the parking areas.
Instead, the resort has not operated since July 2001, mostly because of low snowfall seasons but also because the group did not have operating permits from the state for the chairlifts.
Then in January 2005, Barry Stubblefield, a part owner who was digging out Waterman after a snow storm, died in an accident on the hill. Stubblefield and two ski patrol members were skiing when he fell and tumbled out of control, hitting a tree.
The loss was devastating to the owners, Ojala said, but they still continued their efforts to get the resort running by this winter.
Although they worked last summer to bring the chairlifts into compliance, the effort was not enough to satisfy the Forest Service, he said.
"It's been hard," said Ojala. "We wanted to bring snow play to Snowcrest and snowmaking to Waterman, but it always seemed like the Forest Service was changing the rules and couldn't make up their minds."
debbie.pfeiffer@sgvn.com
(562) 698-0955, Ext. 3028"
thx for this info!
Here's a link to the article:
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/search/ci_3593835
"Mount Waterman ski resort faces uncertain future
By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell Staff Writer MOUNT WATERMAN -
Pasadena Star News
Article Launched: 03/12/2006 12:00 AM PST
There are no long lines at the lift ticket office, no vehicles parked bumper-to-bumper on Highway 2, no parka-clad skiers and snowboarders hopping onto the chairlift for the ride to the top of the mountain.
The only signs of life at Mount Waterman this ski season are hawks circling above the tall pines, squirrels running across the highway, and a white-haired man who stands at the base of the lifts looking up at the steep snow-covered mountain face.
But just wait until next season, says 85-year-old Lynn Newcomb, the former owner of the long-closed ski resort.
Newcomb and Rick Metcalf, a Southern California real estate developer and former Waterman skier, are negotiating to buy back the ski resort, which Newcomb sold in 1999 to a group of Southern California businessmen.
"I'm older and shorter now, but I still want to keep a hand in it," Newcomb said Thursday as he walked across the icy base area.
If his plans work out, he and Metcalf hope to improve the facilities, including renovating the resort's small restaurant, located within the warming hut and the ticket office. They also plan to bring up to standard the three chairlifts, which must pass state inspection. But running Mount Waterman again could be as challenging as skiing down the area's steep front face. Newcomb decided to get back into the ski resort business after he heard that the U.S. Forest Service had revoked the operating permits for Mount Waterman and neighboring Snowcrest, formerly Kratka Ridge.
Under orders from the Forest Service, the current owners must vacate the premises by June or the whole resort could be demolished.
Alarmed by that news, Newcomb contacted Metcalf, a Del Mar real estate developer and longtime skier, who had expressed an interest in purchasing the ski area.
Newcomb told him there were plans to wipe Waterman out and that something needed to be done, said Metcalf.
"I felt like I wanted to save it because it's such an unbelievable hill and I wanted future generations to enjoy it," Metcalf said.
Jody Noiron, forest supervisor for the Angeles National Forest, confirmed that the Mount Waterman permits were revoked for non-compliance reasons, including a lack of operating permits from the state to operate the chairlifts.
The current owners have until the summer to remove all facilities, including the chairlifts, she said.
If the facilities are not removed by the deadline, they become the property of the U.S. government. But the owners are still responsible for all the costs involved in their removal, she said.
If the owners choose to sell the resort before that time, it will be a private transaction, she added. The Forest Service would get involved again if new owners apply to the agency for special-use permits, she said.
Chuck Ojala, one of the current owners, said there have been negotiations with Metcalf, but no deal has been struck.
"It's in a state of flux with nothing decided on," he said. "All I know is everyone wants to save it because it is a historic Southern California ski site."
The resort dates back to 1939, when Newcomb and his father built the first rope tow at the area, about 34 miles north of La Ca ada Flintridge in the San Gabriel Mountains.
They began operating the first chairlift in Southern California on New Year's Day 1942.
Newcomb remained at the helm of the resort for all but a two-year period in the early 1990s, when he sold it to two San Gabriel Valley businessmen.
When their ambitious plans for snowmaking and other improvements fell through, the businessmen returned it to Newcomb.
He continued running it until 1999, when a new group of about 11 Southern California businessman purchased it and neighboring Snowcrest.
The new owners formed a company, Angeles Crest Resorts, and also announced big plans to bring change to the resort, including adding 16 to 17 chairlifts, building up the acreage between Waterman and Snowcrest, installing extensive snowmaking and improving the parking areas.
Instead, the resort has not operated since July 2001, mostly because of low snowfall seasons but also because the group did not have operating permits from the state for the chairlifts.
Then in January 2005, Barry Stubblefield, a part owner who was digging out Waterman after a snow storm, died in an accident on the hill. Stubblefield and two ski patrol members were skiing when he fell and tumbled out of control, hitting a tree.
The loss was devastating to the owners, Ojala said, but they still continued their efforts to get the resort running by this winter.
Although they worked last summer to bring the chairlifts into compliance, the effort was not enough to satisfy the Forest Service, he said.
"It's been hard," said Ojala. "We wanted to bring snow play to Snowcrest and snowmaking to Waterman, but it always seemed like the Forest Service was changing the rules and couldn't make up their minds."
debbie.pfeiffer@sgvn.com
(562) 698-0955, Ext. 3028"
')
My understanding is that the Metcalf/Newcomb deal with a 5-year permit (story posted above Mar. 14, 2006) is expected to be approved.