jamesdeluxe
Administrator
That's a fantastic deal from LAX, even with the stops.
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ski-air travel stories
- Thread starter jimk
- Start date
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Prior to deregulation in 1978, the original Frontier Airlines allegedly had approximately 40% of the air traffic out of Denver Stapleton Airport. Here's its route map in 1980, a patchwork of mostly short "milk run" hops. You can see that it was shut out of obvious routes like DEN to SFO, LAX, and SLC.
By the time I moved to the Front Range in 1982, Frontier's Denver market share had dropped precipitously without the protection of government regulation, cratering at 7% in 1983 (both United and Continental had large hubs at Stapleton airport).
Wikipedia explains: fearing continued competition from low-cost carriers, especially new Denver entrant Southwest Airlines, Frontier formulated a plan to compete and maintain its Denver stronghold. A new non-union "airline within an airline" subsidiary, Frontier Horizon, was devised as an innovative solution to improve revenue and provide throughput from major markets into the Frontier system at Denver. Protests were held by the unionized workforce picketing the infusion of money into the “new” airline, while the legacy Frontier Airline suffered employee concessions and operating reductions. During its brief existence, Frontier Horizon flew Boeing 727s nonstop between Denver and New York LaGuardia, Washington Dulles, Chicago O'Hare, San Francisco, Orlando, and Tampa (I recall flying them between LGA and Denver during a trip home to Syracuse in the summer of 1984).
Another issue was the operating name chosen by the new airline. Seattle-based Horizon Airlines found heartache with the “Horizon” title and suggested it was too similar in nature to their name and filed a complaint. The Civil Aeronautics Board sided with Horizon Air and directed Frontier Holdings to rename the airline.
I clearly recall them holding a public competition in the mid-80s to rename Frontier Horizon and the winner would receive a lifetime pass on all of Frontier's holdings. Even more appetizing, there were rumors about them starting nonstop service from Denver to London, Paris, and other Euro cities. I remember fellow CU students stuffing the ballot boxes with multiple entries in the hopes of this life-changing possibility. The winning entry was the blah "Frontier Discovery;" however, it was never used as Frontier Horizon ceased operations in April 1985. The contest winner ended up with a big goose egg.
Wikipedia continues: Frontier's employee union coalition struggled to save the airline but failed. People Express Airlines acquired Frontier and operated it as an independent entity for a short time (see map below). In October 1986, Continental Airlines acquired People Express and Frontier and in March 2012, Continental merged into United Airlines.
EMSC
Well-known member
I knew there was a prior iteration of Frontier but not that it had 40% market share in Denver.
The current version re-started with that same name in 1994, only 8 years after the prior one went belly up. Though it didn't devolve into the horrible experience that it is now until about 10 years ago (unfortunately still fly them about once every couple years when I need to book short notice and the dollars involved need to also be low).
The current version re-started with that same name in 1994, only 8 years after the prior one went belly up. Though it didn't devolve into the horrible experience that it is now until about 10 years ago (unfortunately still fly them about once every couple years when I need to book short notice and the dollars involved need to also be low).
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
That's what the internet sez. The 40% number may have been a single high point -- who knows. I definitely remember that business customers of the original Frontier were not amused when it was absorbed by People Express and run as a low-cost/low-amenity carrier.
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
You parked your car at the airport for five weeks?
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
We live at a similar distance from EWR so my brother leaves his car at our house when he travels.
How was the 15-hour nonstop flight from JNB?
Patrick
Well-known member
Not sure what the commercial is now? Are believe they are above 18hrs. Did Vancouver-Melbourne in 2018 at 17hrs. First flight was Ottawa-Vancouver at 5ish. Really sucks when you can't sleep.
In terms of scheduled flight time, the 15 hours 40 minutes JNB-EWR would be a personal record, but actual flight time was an hour faster. Scheduled times are faster west-to-east than east-to-west due to assumed jet stream, but of course that is variable by date of flight. Scheduled LAX-SYD is 15 hours 10 minutes and I've done that twice. Scheduled MEL-LAX is 14 hours 15 minutes, longer distance but less time being west-to-east. ATL-CPT in 2002 was also 15 hours 10 minutes scheduled.
I slept about 5 hours of JNB-EWR as I think I did on the last LAX-SYD. It's random for me. We paid a $200 last minute upgrade to each have a 4 seat row in the back of the plane to ourselves for the 11 hours overnight FRA-JNB flight June 7 and I only slept 3 hours of that. Liz really appreciated that upgrade because she rarely sleeps much when in an upright seat.
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The routes discussed above were commercial flight records when inaugurated. History of longest flights.
1980s and 1990s
- November 4, 1982: Pan Am set a further record using a 747SP to launch its new non-stop route connecting Sydney to Los Angeles, covering 12,051 kilometres (7,488 mi; 6,507 nmi).[109][110][111]
- November 3, 1991: South African Airways sets a new record, using a Boeing 747-400 to connect New York–JFK to Johannesburg non-stop (eastbound): a distance of 12,824 kilometres (7,968 mi; 6,924 nmi).[112][113]
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
when we flew direct from ewr to cpt was eh...moderate turbulence for the first 10hrs...
the jnb to ewr was fine...but i can't sleep on a plane
I noticed last year in Perth that there was a direct flight to London. That's #4 on the longest flight list at 9,009 miles and 17 hours 45 minutes. #1 is Singapore - New York at 9,537 miles and 18 hours 50 minutes.
During March/April 2020 there was a 9,765 miles nonstop from Paris to Tahiti because U.S. stopovers were not allowed during peak COVID.
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sarahontrack
New member
That must've been quite a whirlwind dealing with all those flight logistics.
I recently had my own little adventure flying to Seoul. Thankfully, no crazy passport issues, but the long haul was definitely a test of patience. Despite the flight, it was totally worth it. Seoul was incredible – the food, the culture, everything. I got really hooked on Korean BBQ and street food. Plus, their public transport made exploring the city a breeze. I came across some tourism statistics that piqued my interest before the trip https://gowithguide.com/blog/tourism-in-seoul-statistics-2023-the-ultimate-guide-5535
I recently had my own little adventure flying to Seoul. Thankfully, no crazy passport issues, but the long haul was definitely a test of patience. Despite the flight, it was totally worth it. Seoul was incredible – the food, the culture, everything. I got really hooked on Korean BBQ and street food. Plus, their public transport made exploring the city a breeze. I came across some tourism statistics that piqued my interest before the trip https://gowithguide.com/blog/tourism-in-seoul-statistics-2023-the-ultimate-guide-5535
Liz and I had a nice day in Seoul in January 2016 as the layover on the way to Sapporo and our Japan ski trip. Korean Air is in Skyteam so we could use FF miles. The train connection from the airport was very easy.
With connections I sometimes opt for a 10-13 hour layover during daytime hours and do some sightseeing:
Auckland on the way to Christchurch July 2011
Fiji on the way to Australia Nov. 2012
Seoul on the way to Sapporo Jan. 2016
Tokyo on the way back from Indonesia Mar. 2016
New York 18 hours on the way back from Geneva Feb. 2018
Alice Springs 7 hours between Yulara and Darwin July 2019
Melbourne on the way back from Perth May 2023
London on the way to South Africa June 2024
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jamesdeluxe
Administrator
This just in from United. If I remember correctly, this type of promotion doesn't usually net us any real bargains -- and probably not for winter.
Our week of deals is now starting on July 29, and you'll get access to a new 24 hour MileagePlus® award and fare sale every day to a different international destination.
Our week of deals is now starting on July 29, and you'll get access to a new 24 hour MileagePlus® award and fare sale every day to a different international destination.
On the one hand, Southwest opened up flights for Jan-Feb far earlier than in recent years. On the other, this past week Southwest revised their flight schedules for destinations such as SLC and ABQ enough to make a noticeable difference.
I had three flight itineraries booked a month or two ago . . . and all three changed. The arrival times are about the same, but I'll be getting up an hour or two earlier to head to the airport. For two flights, the new schedule was okay. For the third, I opted to go online and change to a different itinerary. Apparently SW allows up to two changes with no change in fare in such situations.
My friend who is traveling with me from an east coast airport also had flights changed.
I had three flight itineraries booked a month or two ago . . . and all three changed. The arrival times are about the same, but I'll be getting up an hour or two earlier to head to the airport. For two flights, the new schedule was okay. For the third, I opted to go online and change to a different itinerary. Apparently SW allows up to two changes with no change in fare in such situations.
My friend who is traveling with me from an east coast airport also had flights changed.
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Southwest threw in the towel on unassigned seats. Was kinda charming in the 70s, far less so after that.
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
and they added red eye flights...
they don't have a big foot print here( lga,jfk,ewr)
EMSC
Well-known member
No visible issues at the airport or lists of cancelled flights on the boards, and no issues for me personally out of DC (IAD) yesterday.
So no adds to this thread from my most recent trip which went exactly on time and with bags as planned and etc... Lucky to miss the few days of issues I guess.
Not sure how they will recoup the revenue they have been getting by 1/2 or more of the plane paying for automatic check-in though. They are already not doing all that well financially. Have to see the more nuanced details they publish in the fall (nothing changes until sometime next year for them anyway).
Been there and ain't never doing that again in my life (red-eye within the US). WAY too short of flights with no sleep = very cranky and tired me-at best.
I really don't get how SW are doing so poorly financially - When I look at prices they are very often more expensive than the competition out of Denver even when you consider bags or etc... Haven't been a 'discount' airline in at least 15 years IMO.
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Southwest serves ten cities from LGA, which is basically what they offered out of EWR until United chased them out in 2019. You're right; I thought that their footprint was bigger.
They also have a few alte kaker flights to Florida from Long Island:
