Taos Snowboard Ban

When I wrote that I thought "that ham-ster clown will surely give me sh***" for saying anything about step-ins". But I decided to write it anyway, since my point was that snowboard technology is not as stagnant as some people think.

Yes, step-ins don't provide the rock-solid feel that you or I want, but they are an answer to skiers who complain about snowboarding for the nuisance of stopping to strap in.

Yes, of course they make mountainering boots and the bindings to fit them for snowboarding. I know you are a split-boarder like I am, is it crazy to want the utmost in support when front-pointing a route up steep icy terrain to reach a sweet Coulior? Or maybe you carry your soft boots in your pack...damn that must be heavy.
 
cannonball says:
Yes, step-ins don't provide the rock-solid feel that you or I want, but they are an answer to skiers who complain about snowboarding for the nuisance of stopping to strap in.
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now they can complain about their buddies picking the ice out of
the "bindings" and trying to get "clicked" in. step-ins are good for
learning though. i'll give them that much. that reminds me of that stupid
rule of leashes i thought about today while sitting on the lift. skiers click
in, but have "brakes" on thier ski's. ok. snowboarders "strap" in and are
required to have leashes to prevent the runaway board. now who is
more apt to have thier equipment fly away from them in the unfortunate
occurance of a "yard sale"? i guess it's just one of those lame rules that
will stick around for awhile, if not for ever. i suppose ifa boarder
decided to unstrap on the hill, and if they dropped thier board
between ustrapping and picking the board up to carry, and if there
was nobody around to catch it, and if it actually did run into
someone and not tumble or go off into the woods, and if that person
got injured, and ifthey found the resort responsible, then sure the
leash is a good idea. i think that rule is a bit outdated though. IMO

cannonball says:
I know you are a split-boarder like I am, is it crazy to want the utmost in support when front-pointing a route up steep icy terrain to reach a sweet Coulior? Or maybe you carry your soft boots in your pack...damn that must be heavy.
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i don't know anything about climbing up steep icey terrain. i usually find
an alternative route if that's the case (up and down). if not, then i ride
something else. switchbacks through the trees to access a ridge, then
along the ridge. that's pretty much the general route to the places i go.
minimal exposure to slopes that might slide. actually, this July i ran into
a steep slope up to a ridge to access a couloir. softboots worked fine. if
you do this on a regular basis, more power to you. ice climbing is a
different sport all together though. :lol:
 
I talked with the proprietor of Points North Heliskiing in Cordova, Alaska last night at the L.A. Ski Show. He said Alaska heli business is 50/50 skiers and boarders. Definitely different than Canada.

Mammoth's business is 40% snowboarders. I'm guessing it's about 20% on Chairs 22 and 23, but I'm going to measure that on my next trip Dec. 18-19.

Another aspect the Mammoth rep mentioned (with which I agree) is that the very early and very late season business is well over half snowboarders. I suspect you see that effect big-time at A-Basin in May when the other Front Range areas have closed. But I'll bet mid-season A-Basin is mostly skiers when areas with state-of-the-art parks like Breck are open.
 
Interesting stats.

Not so sure about the late season A-basin (and others) theory. It's been my experience (and I could be way off) that park riders and steeps riders have very little cross over. In fact, it seems like there is actually a bigger gap between jibbers and big Mtn riders than there is between skiers and sowboarders. Therefore, I doubt that Breck's parks attract many "A-Basin style" riders. Although you may be right that when the parks are closed some of the jibbers find their way out to the other mountains.

What do you think acounts for the difference between AK and CAN heli business? Could be as simple as all those insane photos of Jeremy Jones riding in AK?
 
Cannonball":1tc6y6ck said:
Interesting stats.
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I learned a while back to not try to debate stats with a professional statistician. :wink: He really will go out and measure the populations on those Mammoth chairs.
 
cannonball says: It's been my experience (and I could be way off) that park riders and steeps riders have very little cross over. In fact, it seems like there is actually a bigger gap between jibbers and big Mtn riders than there is between skiers and sowboarders.
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i find that to be the situation at big sky as well. more big mtn riders than
jibbers. don't you love how the park rats think they kill the mtn? haha. i
used to be one of those park rats, from growing up on the east, but when
i first came out west to ride big mtn terrain, it was a totally different
story. that's the reason i moved out west, so i figured i might as well
learn to kill that as well as the park. 4 yrs later, my park skills have
diminished. the confidence isn't exactly there like before. riding pow and
big mtn terrain for the first time is like learning how to ride all over
again. i swear. i felt like such a goof. the mountain puts you right in
your place at places like big sky and jackson. i never knew what it took
to actually ride the big stuff like the pro's do. i'm getting the hang of it
now though. it takes more leg strength and stamina, that's for sure. i
think most riders in the west prefer the big mtn style rather than parks,
but parks have become the place where you show what you got as far as
freestyle. after all, that's what has progressed snowboarding so much in
the past years i think. freestyle riding is the norm while the big mtn
riding is sitting in the back seat still no getting it's recognition. although,
the riders who actually ride that type of terrain respect what they see in
movies that much more. the riders who don't ride that type of terrain just
say, "i wish i could ride that"........but couldn't. :D

freeriding is where it's at. whether skier or snowboarder.
the jibbers eventually grow up and realize what they've
been missing and get put right in thier place like i did. time to adopt my
freestyle skills back again this year. big sky's park is suppossed to be
really good, much larger, and taken care of regularly. we'll see what
happens though.
 
Nice analysis by Hamdog. The SoCal local areas with the volume business (Big Bear and Mt. High) have world class terrain parks and no big mountain terrain whatsoever. Therefore this snowboard population doesn't patronize Baldy and has trouble with the steeps at Mammoth.
 
Hamdog - You've gone from the park to the peak...and learned what you've been missing. Isn't it about time to go from the soft boots to the hard boots and really learn to ride? :lol:

Cannonball - I've encountered that situation where I had no choice but to kick steps into a steep icy slope to get where I wanted to go. My hard boots did fine. If I had soft boots...I might not be typing this now. I've been on Hard boots now for about 15 yrs...no real plans to switch. Mostly I ride the mountain...and rarely if ever go in a park or pipe...my local hill has none...which is fine by me.

I ride in AT boots...which are ski boots...so why again am I not allowed at Taos?

Free Taos
 
Isn't it about time to go from the soft boots to the hard boots and really learn to ride?
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i don't need hardboots to really know how to ride. maybe when i become
a bit more fragile they might come in handy. til then.......... "notin" a
chance in h311. to restricting to my riding style right now.
 
Whereas the Snowboard Ban is unfair to boarders, and does affect the business bottom line of the mountain, it does have a very desirable side-effect: No Crowds. I can go to Taos any day, and maybe I'll have to wait a couple minutes in line for the chair during spring break, but waiting is a rarity.
A lot of the steeep terrain at Taos requires entering gullies through narrow chokes, and while many skiers scrape the snow out of these technical areas by side-sliding into the run, I"d hate to see what my favorite lines would look like if that was repeated by a group of boarders sliding in on their heelsides. Furthermore, when you look at the demographic of people that board, I believe you will see an increase in the percentage when looking at riders & skiers that "charge it". This lerads me to believe that letting boarders on Taos would result in a large increase in traffic in the West Basin and ridge areas, ruining my ability to find great fluffy lines weeks after a dump.
So, I would like to say that I feel for you boarders, but I enjoy having a place to go that isn't overrun (believe me, Taos would be CROWDED if it let boarders on, and they are not set up for such an increase in traffic). As far as the argument of the Forrest service neglecting enforcement for "all" users, snowboarders are welcome, provided that they are on skis.
 
if snowboarders are welcome provided they are on ski's, well, then
wouldn't they be skiers?

i didn't realize snowboarders are the only ones sideslipping. thanks for
pointing that out.

no lines? and there would be if boarders were there? ok. and the ski
lines that you like would be ruined if boarders rode them? plenty of lines
at big sky that don't get ruined, and they allow boarders. oh, and no lift
lines there either.

you're sounding silly. :roll:
 
And Taos is such an "alpine" experience. All alpine skiers, except for those Telemarkers, gay bladers, etc.... :roll:

The best thing that could happen is that they keep their stupid stance and they go out of business. They'll never see a $ from me anyway. At least with the current management.
 
Well, If you read my post, I do point out that snowboarders aren't the only ones sideslipping. As for the lack of crowds and plethora of lines at Big Sky, it is HUGE compared to Taos, and has numerous high speed quads. Take a look at the Taos trail map sometime. I didn't mean to offend your sensitivities about snowboarding, I know that there are a lot of misconceptions out there, as I boarded for nearly 5 years before switching back to skis, and I try to defend boarders whenever I hear misinformed skiers waxing on about how out-of-control boarders are (I'm saying you aren't). But see it from the local skier's point of view. It does keep the crowds down and I don't think that you can argue with that.

By the way , if you want to board Taos, then get a job at the resort. Employee ski day is open to boarders as well. (plus there is after season hiking)
 
not arguing the Taos ban. i'm defending snowboarders.

and yes, you did say skiers sideslip as well. i guess the snowboarding statement jumped out at me instead. doh!

i have looked at the trailmap. looks like a fun hill. to bad i'll never go there
 
Fellow Guest - while I can sympathize with your reasons for enjoying the ban I still feel it's wrong. Skiing/boarding are essentialy selfish sports. We all want less tracks in front of us, more powder, no crowds, less lines, etc. And while I can agree with enjoying a uncrowded slope, or a powder stash weeks after a storm I still feel the ban is wrong.

I can be as selfish as the next person...if not more...about my own powder lines that I prefer to get first. But I also recognize the fundamental wrongs of a ban based on gear. If Taos really wants to provide it's skiers with uncrowded slopes, and fresh snow...wouldn't it be just as easy to allow boarders and limit ticket sales? There's plenty of ways to keep the slopes uncrowded, and still be fair to all. Rather then being elitist and furthering out dated divisions. It's not the 80's any more.

With that said...here's one of the few chances for people to tell Taos what they think:

http://www.skitaos.org/SURVEY/

Remember, vote early and vote often.
 
Perhaps I am restating the obvious, but I'm too lazy to scroll back too far...

Has it been mentioned that Taos is on Forest Service land?... PUBLICLY owned Forest Service land? If the place was on private property I wouldn't get so worked up about the ban, but it's not...

I skied there in the early 90's, but switched to boarding ten years ago. My guess is that if a steep, often bumped out, rocky hill like Taos built a terrain park, the skiers would still have the good stuff mostly to themselves...

Snowboarding is jibby/freestyley that many ride rails instead of pow at my home hill of Mt Hood Meadows.

The same can be said for traversable Alta.
 
As someone who has skied Taos 30+ days a year for 8 years, the only real negative about allowing snowboarding would be the snow getting tracked out much quicker. Finacially, the TSV (Taos Ski Valley) has to be losing revenue with the ban. One hears some ludicrous comments by "skier snobs", usually from the East Coast, they tell horror stories about "this pack of snowboarders who were harrasing my wife(girlfriend, daughter) by nearly hitting her etc."
The real problem at Taos is the 6 year snow drought. Since 98-99 Taos has averaged a measly 221" per year. Where they come up with the 305" total on there website is anyone's guess. A mountain as steep and rocky as Taos needs 260"-270" for the steep stuff to be skiable.
 
Coming from Durango and skiing Taos is a delight. Every weekend at Purgatory it isn't even worth going because of all the 'rippers' from New Mexico. I can't imagine an easier way to ruin a great mountain like Taos than allowing snowboarders to scrape the Ridge and W Basin clean, but more importantly, the crowds would be too much for that mountain to handle.
 
guest":3lfn66ci said:
Coming from Durango and skiing Taos is a delight. Every weekend at Purgatory it isn't even worth going because of all the 'rippers' from New Mexico. I can't imagine an easier way to ruin a great mountain like Taos than allowing snowboarders to scrape the Ridge and W Basin clean, but more importantly, the crowds would be too much for that mountain to handle.
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Funny, most resorts don't have a problem with crowds because of snowboarding, it's because the resort is popular period. Taos allows every other form of snowsliding so what's the difference?
I'm personally hoping they stick to their guns and go out of business. Hopefully there will be a year with no resort operations. Then people can just earn their turns if they want to ride there. Fine by me.
 
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