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Anonymous
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Killclimbz Taos allows every other form of snowsliding so what's the difference?[/quote said:
Taos Snowboard Ban
- Thread starter hamdog
- Start date
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Anonymous
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A snowmobile is *slightly* different then a snowboard.
Here's the results of a Mammoth skier/boarder sample Dec. 18-19:
My first run up chair 23 I counted 21 skiers and 6 boarders. All of the boarders and most of the skiers were on Scotty's, which had been groomed. Later in the day I observed that groomed Cornice and Scotty's were nearly half boarders. So I decided thereafter to just count the ungroomed steeps. I should caveat these results by noting that it had not snowed at Mammoth for 10 days and therefore there was not much loose snow. But it was still edgeable dry packed powder and anything steep and/or north facing had never been through a melt/freeze.
Results, in increasing order of difficulty:
Dave's Run, probably best snow and least exposed lines of the top runs, but there is some traversing involved to get there: 41 skiers, 7 boarders.
Climax, right under the top gondola station: 64 skiers, 15 boarders.
Ungroomed chair 23 runs like Drop Out, Wipe Out and Paranoid, the steepest (40+ degrees at entry) and most exposed top runs: 39 skiers, 5 boarders.
Chair 22 runs Viva and Avalanche Chutes, like the steep top runs but narrower: 5 skiers, no boarders.
Total for steep ungroomed: 149 skiers (85%), 27 boarders (15%). Recall that Mammoth's overall population is 40% snowboarders. In fresher snow I believe the ratio on steep runs would have been less lopsided but still more than 60/40.
My first run up chair 23 I counted 21 skiers and 6 boarders. All of the boarders and most of the skiers were on Scotty's, which had been groomed. Later in the day I observed that groomed Cornice and Scotty's were nearly half boarders. So I decided thereafter to just count the ungroomed steeps. I should caveat these results by noting that it had not snowed at Mammoth for 10 days and therefore there was not much loose snow. But it was still edgeable dry packed powder and anything steep and/or north facing had never been through a melt/freeze.
Results, in increasing order of difficulty:
Dave's Run, probably best snow and least exposed lines of the top runs, but there is some traversing involved to get there: 41 skiers, 7 boarders.
Climax, right under the top gondola station: 64 skiers, 15 boarders.
Ungroomed chair 23 runs like Drop Out, Wipe Out and Paranoid, the steepest (40+ degrees at entry) and most exposed top runs: 39 skiers, 5 boarders.
Chair 22 runs Viva and Avalanche Chutes, like the steep top runs but narrower: 5 skiers, no boarders.
Total for steep ungroomed: 149 skiers (85%), 27 boarders (15%). Recall that Mammoth's overall population is 40% snowboarders. In fresher snow I believe the ratio on steep runs would have been less lopsided but still more than 60/40.
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Anonymous
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Tony Crocker":2e4fhha3 said:
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Anonymous
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Oh silly snowboarders...
Every post in this topic has been regurgitating the same stuff
The bottom line is that:
Taos is a better mountain to ski because YOU'RE not there!
Speficially:
1. Taos is on Forest Service land, but they own and run the lifts so that really doesn't matter.
2. Someone in a very old post said that they should make angel fire "skier free" HA! Go for it! That seems like a great solution...You fucktards can take angel fire (tell my uncle-in-law from amarillo and all his buddies I say 'hi'). Have a great time keeping your fat-asses comfy on those cushy quads while you sess the sick parks! I'll be up to my waist in a 500' couloir.
3. You do fuck the snow up. Ski between alta and snowbird someday and look in the bumps, in the trees, shit....look at the groomers...you destroy the shit. Sure, there are skiers who might slide sideways down a chute, but most likely there isn't a posse of 'em...thinking they're sick 'cuz they just got first tracks down a chute...fucking zambonie that shit.
4. Fat pants look lame while in the mountains. There I said it.
5. skiers didn't steal the idea of fat boards and sidecut from snowboarders! What an absurd statement! It's a natural progression. I could easily make the arument that snowboarders copy skiers because we started sliding down mountains in the winter time...but I wouldn't, because I'm not an asshat.
6. Have fun traverssing in the flats on a deep day. You'll be postholing back to the alberta lift at wolf creek while i'm running laps around you.
7. People don't think you're out of control...people don't hate you because you're snowboarders. Most of you have such a fucking attitude about it like your ready to throwdown if every tourist on the hill doesn't realize how fucking sick you and your posse is and they didn't see you rip that last line.
8. Having a snowboard on your feet and a teen-angst attditude DOESNT MAKE YOU COOL. It's like tatoos and piercings....it's so fucking predictable.
The Gist:
If you don't like taos's ban, buy some fat skis and learn how to rip some real terrain. Actually, scratch that. Taos sucks...umm you probably wouldn't like it...maybe you should go to angel fire. (Or Santa Fe...I hear lower columbine cliff is fun to hit over and over and over and over and....)
Every post in this topic has been regurgitating the same stuff
The bottom line is that:
Taos is a better mountain to ski because YOU'RE not there!
Speficially:
1. Taos is on Forest Service land, but they own and run the lifts so that really doesn't matter.
2. Someone in a very old post said that they should make angel fire "skier free" HA! Go for it! That seems like a great solution...You fucktards can take angel fire (tell my uncle-in-law from amarillo and all his buddies I say 'hi'). Have a great time keeping your fat-asses comfy on those cushy quads while you sess the sick parks! I'll be up to my waist in a 500' couloir.
3. You do fuck the snow up. Ski between alta and snowbird someday and look in the bumps, in the trees, shit....look at the groomers...you destroy the shit. Sure, there are skiers who might slide sideways down a chute, but most likely there isn't a posse of 'em...thinking they're sick 'cuz they just got first tracks down a chute...fucking zambonie that shit.
4. Fat pants look lame while in the mountains. There I said it.
5. skiers didn't steal the idea of fat boards and sidecut from snowboarders! What an absurd statement! It's a natural progression. I could easily make the arument that snowboarders copy skiers because we started sliding down mountains in the winter time...but I wouldn't, because I'm not an asshat.
6. Have fun traverssing in the flats on a deep day. You'll be postholing back to the alberta lift at wolf creek while i'm running laps around you.
7. People don't think you're out of control...people don't hate you because you're snowboarders. Most of you have such a fucking attitude about it like your ready to throwdown if every tourist on the hill doesn't realize how fucking sick you and your posse is and they didn't see you rip that last line.
8. Having a snowboard on your feet and a teen-angst attditude DOESNT MAKE YOU COOL. It's like tatoos and piercings....it's so fucking predictable.
The Gist:
If you don't like taos's ban, buy some fat skis and learn how to rip some real terrain. Actually, scratch that. Taos sucks...umm you probably wouldn't like it...maybe you should go to angel fire. (Or Santa Fe...I hear lower columbine cliff is fun to hit over and over and over and over and....)
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Anonymous
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hamdog-
these are 'stereotypes'? I don't think so...and if they are, than look around..all your knuckle-dragging buddies perpetuate this stereotype everywhere i go.
"Look at the difference between the snow at Alta and Snowbird" thats a stereotype?
"Angel Fire skier free" thats a stereotype?
Why don't you come up with a decent response like:
"maybe taos should open up groomers to all snowboarders, and only allow lifts 2 and 7A for boarders who prove to patrol/ski school that they can turn their board on steep terrain?"---it'll never happen, but at least it shows your thinking, not whining
From TSV's perspective it's probably is an issue of maintaining snowpack...but from a pass holder's point of view it's great because the vibe at the mountain is so mellow. So much more of a vibe at Santa Fe on a pow day...and don't get me started again about angel fire...it's like a fashion show for cheezy, no talent boarders who whine about powder 'cuz it wrecks the park.
As I said before:
If you live in NM (or utah and can't ride Alta!) and you are a snowboarder you most certainly have an attitude about how sick you are, or you're just a dumb-ass...there is no reason to not switch over to skis when taos is so much better than any other resort in the area.
You talk about the "attitude at taos"...what attitude is this? Is it bad to want to preserve the snow for loyal locals?
Have you ever been to taos? err...above the base area? Get on skis for a day and go check it out. Ski under the west basin, look up, and tell me that you think taos sucks.
To answer your ?'s:
No, I don't live in bridger, i live in taos.
I have skiid b-bowl a fair amount.
Also lived in Jackson, tahoe, Burke (VT), and spent alot of time in Crested Butte. I ride with snowboarders often...i just think they need to open their eyes. I tele and spend 1/2 my days in the backcountry. (New Mexico has more b/c stashes with NOBODY on them then i've ever seen).
Seeing you say you're an "expert lift rider" doesn't surprise me at all. Arn't all snowboarders expert? At least they can all get down the steepest terrain by sliding on their heel edge, so that makes them totally awesome, right?
these are 'stereotypes'? I don't think so...and if they are, than look around..all your knuckle-dragging buddies perpetuate this stereotype everywhere i go.
"Look at the difference between the snow at Alta and Snowbird" thats a stereotype?
"Angel Fire skier free" thats a stereotype?
Why don't you come up with a decent response like:
"maybe taos should open up groomers to all snowboarders, and only allow lifts 2 and 7A for boarders who prove to patrol/ski school that they can turn their board on steep terrain?"---it'll never happen, but at least it shows your thinking, not whining
From TSV's perspective it's probably is an issue of maintaining snowpack...but from a pass holder's point of view it's great because the vibe at the mountain is so mellow. So much more of a vibe at Santa Fe on a pow day...and don't get me started again about angel fire...it's like a fashion show for cheezy, no talent boarders who whine about powder 'cuz it wrecks the park.
As I said before:
If you live in NM (or utah and can't ride Alta!) and you are a snowboarder you most certainly have an attitude about how sick you are, or you're just a dumb-ass...there is no reason to not switch over to skis when taos is so much better than any other resort in the area.
You talk about the "attitude at taos"...what attitude is this? Is it bad to want to preserve the snow for loyal locals?
Have you ever been to taos? err...above the base area? Get on skis for a day and go check it out. Ski under the west basin, look up, and tell me that you think taos sucks.
To answer your ?'s:
No, I don't live in bridger, i live in taos.
I have skiid b-bowl a fair amount.
Also lived in Jackson, tahoe, Burke (VT), and spent alot of time in Crested Butte. I ride with snowboarders often...i just think they need to open their eyes. I tele and spend 1/2 my days in the backcountry. (New Mexico has more b/c stashes with NOBODY on them then i've ever seen).
Seeing you say you're an "expert lift rider" doesn't surprise me at all. Arn't all snowboarders expert? At least they can all get down the steepest terrain by sliding on their heel edge, so that makes them totally awesome, right?
Unfortunately stereotypes gain acceptance because most of them have grain of truth. Some of the points raised now were analyzed back on page 2 of this thread. We see a lot of the mass heelside scraping here in SoCal. And that would inflict more damage to Taos's fragile snowpack than to the abundance at Snowbird, about which I personally have no complaint.
But if you read hamdog's page 2 analysis you will see that he learned to be a big-mountain rider when he left the East and moved to Big Sky. I do believe the feared damage is exaggerated because of self-selection. Most of the park rats can't/don't want to ride big-mountain, as evidenced by the Mammoth stats.
But if you read hamdog's page 2 analysis you will see that he learned to be a big-mountain rider when he left the East and moved to Big Sky. I do believe the feared damage is exaggerated because of self-selection. Most of the park rats can't/don't want to ride big-mountain, as evidenced by the Mammoth stats.
it's not because that's what you choose to see? no, of course not. try
openning your mind a bit and look at a different perspective. read on.
not a stereotype? there are NO humble riders that rip around there? for
some reason, i doubt that. if i'm wrong......can you blame them? if they
are continually approached from and treated as you have approached this
board and this issue then what do you expect? it's a direct attack approach.
ok, from now on......no more freeheel skiing at Taos. especially JH transplants.
wouldn't you have a defensive take on the situation? hey, i can't back up
those guys, but i can backup all your stereotypical comments about the
"baggy pants, long hair, pot smoking hippies that scrape all the snow off
the trails cause they don't know how to turn" approach to snowboarders
as a whole.....or even just in NM or UT. who needs to open their
eyes? :shock:
i'm refering to the superior tone you take with your response to this topic.
two wrongs don't make a right ya know. :idea:
this approach was implemented in the late 80's i believe.......to get
approval from "superiors" that you were capable of riding on terrain that
everyone else on two planks rides. get over it! "simple is as simple
does". it doesn't matter what you ride........to most of us. :roll:
is it fun? this is fun! it is! really it is, i swear :!:
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Anonymous
Guest
when did i say anything about boarders being pot-heads?
Everyone knows telemarkers have the best weed.
Yes, i do ride with many very talented snowboarders...and i can't imagine why they waste away at santa fe or have to drive to t-ride or silverton to ski decent terrain. And no, I honestly do not think that all snowboarders are punks...i'd be a bit of a hypocrite considering i'm sproting a head of dreadlocks myself. The snowboarders i ride with also recognize that the loud obnoxious kids poaching in avy terrain or getting into tight chutes without the skills (or avy knowledge) to back it up are most likely snowboarders.
As far as a mountain with world-class terrain banning skiers...sure I'd be pissed...but if i lived in the region and it had the only good terrain, i gaurantee i'd be out there on a snowboard so that i could ride a good mountain.
I'm sure snowboarding is a blast, you guys get great flotation with minimal effort (compared to tele).
But it just doesn't make sense to limit yourself to lesser terrain, why not just bite the bullet and switch to DH or tele. Or, whine and whine and cry and realize that taos is never going to switch.
Everyone knows telemarkers have the best weed.
Yes, i do ride with many very talented snowboarders...and i can't imagine why they waste away at santa fe or have to drive to t-ride or silverton to ski decent terrain. And no, I honestly do not think that all snowboarders are punks...i'd be a bit of a hypocrite considering i'm sproting a head of dreadlocks myself. The snowboarders i ride with also recognize that the loud obnoxious kids poaching in avy terrain or getting into tight chutes without the skills (or avy knowledge) to back it up are most likely snowboarders.
As far as a mountain with world-class terrain banning skiers...sure I'd be pissed...but if i lived in the region and it had the only good terrain, i gaurantee i'd be out there on a snowboard so that i could ride a good mountain.
I'm sure snowboarding is a blast, you guys get great flotation with minimal effort (compared to tele).
But it just doesn't make sense to limit yourself to lesser terrain, why not just bite the bullet and switch to DH or tele. Or, whine and whine and cry and realize that taos is never going to switch.
Cannonball
New member
Well, obviously this topic is pretty tired at this point. I hardly have the interest or energy to go through all this silliness again. But since a good chunk of this thread was lost during the hacker situation awhile back, I'll briefly go over this again.
There is only one REAL reason that some mountains (Taos, Alta, Mad River, etc.) have snowboard bans --- Niche Marketing. There is a lot of rehtoric and rationalization that they use to pertetuate it, but really that's all it is. All three of these areas have great terrain. I've skied them all and was impressed every time. But the terrain isn't so outstanding that they can survive on that alone, so they need something that sets them apart, something that makes them unique. Mad River sits right in the valley with a lot of other great mountains. They either have to spend the funds to compete head-to-head or be unique, and it works. The Snowbird-Alta complex already brings in tons of skier/riders but they still have to compete with other UT and CO areas to bring in dollars. So they offer something a little unique at Alta and maybe they get a few extra people.
Then there's Taos. Great steep terrain and ?..? Limited snowfall and snowpack preservation, very limited local population base, no surrounding amenities/attractions (unless you like the adobe theme park), no significant surrounding destination resorts for people who like multi-area vacations (think UT, Summit County, etc), difficult access from airports, etc, etc. So why would you book a trip to Taos? They offer something unique! A family ski vacation without all the crime and violence of those pesky snowboarders. Your teenage daughter will be safe and and your son won't turn into a hoodlum.
What these bans rely on is the perpetuation of the snowboarding sterotype. Tony, come on here, you are usually fair and impartial. Now you're saying that sterotypes are based in fact? Here's a sterotype we used to hear when shaped skis came out "what do you call 2 guys on shape skis?....pair-a-ball-lickers". I never thought this was based on fact, maybe I was wrong. What really gets me is that people like "mountainman" come off like religious zealots about this stuff. And like them, they are completely unaware that it's the marketing campaigns that form their mindset for them. Maybe it's lead in the driking water or inbreeding or something, but give me a break, think for yourself!
In the end though, I was happy to see mm's post. It had me laughing for a really long time. There were two great highlights:
and
This guy can barely write a sentence without a censored word, and we're supposed to buy into snowboarders being the punks??
Taos will keep influencing the little brains of these guys until it's no longer economically feasible. Then thet'll go out of business or open up to snowboarders, and mm will be left whining in the corner, and Taos would care for minute.
There is only one REAL reason that some mountains (Taos, Alta, Mad River, etc.) have snowboard bans --- Niche Marketing. There is a lot of rehtoric and rationalization that they use to pertetuate it, but really that's all it is. All three of these areas have great terrain. I've skied them all and was impressed every time. But the terrain isn't so outstanding that they can survive on that alone, so they need something that sets them apart, something that makes them unique. Mad River sits right in the valley with a lot of other great mountains. They either have to spend the funds to compete head-to-head or be unique, and it works. The Snowbird-Alta complex already brings in tons of skier/riders but they still have to compete with other UT and CO areas to bring in dollars. So they offer something a little unique at Alta and maybe they get a few extra people.
Then there's Taos. Great steep terrain and ?..? Limited snowfall and snowpack preservation, very limited local population base, no surrounding amenities/attractions (unless you like the adobe theme park), no significant surrounding destination resorts for people who like multi-area vacations (think UT, Summit County, etc), difficult access from airports, etc, etc. So why would you book a trip to Taos? They offer something unique! A family ski vacation without all the crime and violence of those pesky snowboarders. Your teenage daughter will be safe and and your son won't turn into a hoodlum.
What these bans rely on is the perpetuation of the snowboarding sterotype. Tony, come on here, you are usually fair and impartial. Now you're saying that sterotypes are based in fact? Here's a sterotype we used to hear when shaped skis came out "what do you call 2 guys on shape skis?....pair-a-ball-lickers". I never thought this was based on fact, maybe I was wrong. What really gets me is that people like "mountainman" come off like religious zealots about this stuff. And like them, they are completely unaware that it's the marketing campaigns that form their mindset for them. Maybe it's lead in the driking water or inbreeding or something, but give me a break, think for yourself!
In the end though, I was happy to see mm's post. It had me laughing for a really long time. There were two great highlights:
After which he proceeded to regurtitate all the same old stuff: Fat pants and knuckledragging?!?! What is this 1985?!?
and
This guy can barely write a sentence without a censored word, and we're supposed to buy into snowboarders being the punks??
Taos will keep influencing the little brains of these guys until it's no longer economically feasible. Then thet'll go out of business or open up to snowboarders, and mm will be left whining in the corner, and Taos would care for minute.
The only part of the "stereotype" I considered worth commenting on was the effect on a fragile snowpack. I made the comment because I see a lot of it here in SoCal. My 20-year-old son is more outspoken about it than I am because he dabbled in snowboarding for a few seasons and immediately understood that he was supposed to make turns and not do the heelside scrape.
I also stated earlier that I oppose the Taos ban on fairness grounds even if it would degrade snow conditions.
I also stated earlier that I oppose the Taos ban on fairness grounds even if it would degrade snow conditions.
Killclimbz
New member
I just think that Taos skiers are afraid to let snowboarders on the mountain because they might actually have more fun then they are...
option_ride
New member
Mountainman- aka, White hippie transplant with dreds! Ohh! the steroetypes are just welling up, but I'll refrain from acting like a bone headed moron.
option_ride
New member
You sound like a young punk jibber!
option_ride
New member
P.S. They can stop you from riding the lift but they can't stop you from strapping on a pair of snowshoes and hiking right up the the trails to the top!
Earn it and they can't take it!
Earn it and they can't take it!
Killclimbz
New member
option_ride":2ur5q4mo said:
Actually, if memory serves some people did just that a few years ago. They hiked up to the top of the mountain before the lifts opened. They dropped in at about the time lifts started spinning. Both got ticketed at the bottom of the hill and had to make a court appearance for snowboarding on the mountain. It was probably 4 years ago or more that this incident happened. Wish I could say more about it.
Taos can keep there ban or lift it. Either way they are about 14 years too late for me to care. They won't get a dime from me either way.
Cannonball
New member
Thanks Kill,
Yeah I remember that story too. On the old RSN forums the TSV group was funny because it was exclusively devoted to people talking about everything EXCEPT TSV. The only time TSV got mentioned was: 1) when some nutjob like "mount-a-man" spouted off about the beauty of no snowboarders, or 2) when I handfull of snowboarders did their moonlight hike-and-climbs to present fresh snowbaord tracks right under the lift.
I've often thought about sneaking through the liftline on my split-board only to ride down in full view of everyone. Then I think "who cares" there's so much to ski and ride out there, why do I care about a silly little mountain/mind-set.
Yeah I remember that story too. On the old RSN forums the TSV group was funny because it was exclusively devoted to people talking about everything EXCEPT TSV. The only time TSV got mentioned was: 1) when some nutjob like "mount-a-man" spouted off about the beauty of no snowboarders, or 2) when I handfull of snowboarders did their moonlight hike-and-climbs to present fresh snowbaord tracks right under the lift.
I've often thought about sneaking through the liftline on my split-board only to ride down in full view of everyone. Then I think "who cares" there's so much to ski and ride out there, why do I care about a silly little mountain/mind-set.
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Anonymous
Guest
Any ideas how I can get a \"free Taos\" mini-sticker to wear on my helmet while ski-boarding at Taos (even though I\'d rather be snowboarding)? I tried to email freetaos, but the message bounced.
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