TR Crested Butte, Telluride

[Tony Crocker]

Someone mentioned Pebble in Idaho, just off Pocatello, been there? Looking at it for break between slc and targhee.

I have never been there; the reputation is for interesting terrain but snow challenged. It is the local area for a couple I heliskied with in Alaska in 2012; it barely opened during that bad season. I wonder if q has been there, since he seeks out the obscure places. I read the TR on Epic, looked at the trail map. Elevation range is 6,360 - 8,560 on a west facing ridge, with runs dropping N or S from it. Topography/trial map looks like a slightly more expansive version of Arizona Snowbowl, though from the local commentary I suspect it's steeper.

Pocatello is 51 interstate miles short of Idaho Falls; if you get that far you should be going to Targhee IMHO the next day. These rustic local areas tend to be lighter on the grooming than the more "commercial places." For some of us that's part of the appeal, for GPaul probably a negative. If we're trying to nudge him onto the ungroomed, Targhee is the type of mountain where he would more likely meet with success IMHO.

 

[gpaulski]

Precisely my read on Pebble, and exactly my plans with GT; hitting it on way to Big Sky, and if we likey, we hit it again on way back to JH.

Last night bought air, AA roundtrip SDQ-SLC, $709 each, and 12,000 miles added, bringing me to closer to 2 free tkts for my possible easter foray to Banff et al.

Best!

 

[jamesdeluxe]

AA roundtrip SDQ-SLC, $709 each

Yikes. IIRC, those flight dates fall outside of the peak holiday season?

 

[gpaulski]

Flight Taxes in Dr have always been almost as much, and sometimes more than the flights themselves, plus monopolies here and there, kickbacks, etc. Example, same dates MIA-SLC on AA $295, SDQ-MIA $450......

It is what it is, a royal pain in the arse, and a complete rip-off.

 

[ChrisC]

22-26- Tride, not impressed but maybe lack of snow (50% open) caused this.

Telluride was 14% open on Dec. 23. Thanks to us GPaul knew this in advance but chose to go there anyway.

27-30- Crested Butte, FANTASTIC!!!! reminds me of Snowbasin, everything perfect. Friendliest lifties AND townies ever. Many commented on vacationing in the DR, my hometown for the last 20+ years. Small town but groovy! Gonna go back, especially when they open newly approved terrain.

This is the one I don't get. CB was 34% open. This probably did mean most of the front side was open, but CB is certainly not where I would send someone whose first priority is "long steep groomers." CB is a small mountain compared to most Colorado areas in terms of groomed runs. And the steepest ones are on the East River lift, which is comparatively low and thus may have been closed or limited when GPaul was there.
Perhaps our paths will cross sometime so I can collect my

Telluride had its worst Christmas in 20+ years. Epic fail. Until late January. Generally, the mountain gets close to 100% open on a 40" base by Xmas - pre special, radical high Alpine late season terrain which opens Feb 1st.

The best parts of Telluride were closed:
1. The Town-side/Front-side. 0% open. Not even the Telluride Trail (catwalk) was open. People were pissed. The classic Telluride experience since 1990 is skiing 2500-1700 vertical feet of the steepest grooming ever - overlooking the best looking Western mining town ever - overlooking the best box canyon outside of Yosemite. The runs: The Plunge, Bushwacker, Lookout, Coonskin, Milk Run. All groomed once per week - very steep. Amazing. Nothing really compares. (The terrain above the town of Val d'Isere is similar because Olympics, Sun Valley is not as steep, Whistler - nah, Jackson gondy run...,Whitefish kinda ...) in short nothing.
2. High-Bowls. Prospect, Gold Hill, Revelation.
These are some of the most scenic high-alpine terrain one can ski. Nearly 0%. A couple of bad runs in Prospect were open. Not great.

I just do not think you can judge a 20% open ski hill .... when you are missing the best parts. Again, Telluride is best February, March, April with the best expert hike-to terrain In North America.

From Press Release (in response to bad Christmas)

The biggest capital improvement for this winter will be found beneath skis and snowboards. The company invested $1 million on snowmaking and grooming operations, updating snowmaking infrastructure and purchasing new snow guns., The impact, according to the new snowmaking director Brandon Green, will be a system that creates “more snow faster, cheaper and with less waste.”

Green has also increased the size of the snowmaking system by positioning snow guns on Butterfly trail above the Gorrono Ranch Restaurant and on a part of Village Bypass. Snowmaking is scheduled to begin in late October, and will continue, at the latest, until February, with snowmaking crews working 12-hour shifts, 24-hours hours a day.

Once the snow is on the ground and ready to ski, the mountain has improved its ability to groom the snow-covered trails. The resort has purchased three new Sno-Cats, one of them so advanced, Horning said, “it is the best machine as far as I’m concerned.”

Combined, the snowmaking and grooming improvements cost the mountain $2 million, according to Horning, but will go a long way in creating more, better snow earlier in the season. Without hosting the World Cup event this year, the manmade snow will not need to be used to build a snowboard course, and can be distributed across the mountain.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Again, Telluride is best February, March, April with the best expert hike-to terrain In North America.

Yes, and when GPaul first brought up this trip, we told him he should go to Telluride and CB for his Easter week (which was in March last year), not at Christmas.

And as awful as Telluride's early season was last year, my understanding is that it recovered nicely from mid-February onwards. NASJA's western regional meeting was there in mid-February, right after a major dump. The radical high alpine wasn't open for snow stability reasons, but the rest was very good according to Karl Weatherly. Attendance was bad, less than 10 journalists, due to the crappy conditions during the sign-up period. In early January I committed to be elsewhere during that time.

I have heard that despite all the recent improvements attendance at Telluride has not improved in recent years.

 

[gpaulski]

Well, we jumped the rope and skiied downtown on last day, last run!!!!

We will return to CB and Tride, with Taos and Wolf thrown in, probably some Easter vacation when it falls in early March. This Easter it's Banff et al, next one Mammoth.

 

[ChrisC]

Well there is more snow in Telluride for November 2013 than in January 2013.

I'm interested to see what they will open - they could do Prospect Bowl. That happened in the early 2000s.

Anyways, owner Chuck Hornig who knows cancer rehab - fired almost every Telluride exec last season (for fun?) - we will see. His management is a total nightmare.

I hope Vail buys Telluride out someday.

If the ever get a Bear Creek lift - Telluride will be the best mountain in Colorado permanently. It's that beautiful.

 

[ChrisC]

I have heard that despite all the recent improvements attendance at Telluride has not improved in recent years.

Well - I'm not sure any mountain had huge gains during the Great Recession. Telluride has more skiers then Jackson, Big Sky, Sun Valley, etc - squarely in the 400-450k zone.

Telluride opened tons and tons of high end expert terrain. However, I am typically the only one hiking it - with a few core locals. It's an absolutely an amazing expansion that put Telluride squarely in the top 5 expert resorts in the US. (For example, I no longer day trip to Silverton since Telluride's terrain is more extreme with a greater vertical.) However, 15-45 min expert hikes at 12-13k ft does not increase visitor numbers. It makes them feel their limitations.

Revelation Bowl. The setting is awesome. However, it's an 1-2 hour detour - not on the scale of Vail's bowls. More like Copper Mountains bowls. It's beautiful - but just not game changing.

Two things that could move the dial - The Bear Creek lift. Upper Bear Creek is really an advanced intermediate bowl - with a couple of steep areas. I think it's Colorado ski industry game changing. It's the best looking terrain in the state. On the scale of Vail's China Bowl or other bowl expansions. Smaller, but more beautiful and great terrain.

The other area - a big intermediate pod near chair 10. That is what the masses like - and want.

My issues with Telluride: it's just becoming so expensive as to not be fun - personally I rather do a interior BC road trip with cat skiing or heli days for what a week in Telluride might cost.

However, the place is insanely beautiful, the best ski town on a mountain's doorstep, great people, good vibe, progressive, an insane summer calendar (blue grass to telluride film festival) ... it's a great place. Combined with 4000 vertical sidecountry skiing, steep couliors, front side glades - the skiing rocks too ... but slow to get started compared to the NW.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The Bear Creek lift. Upper Bear Creek is really an advanced intermediate bowl - with a couple of steep areas. I think it's Colorado ski industry game changing. It's the best looking terrain in the state. On the scale of Vail's China Bowl or other bowl expansions. Smaller, but more beautiful and great terrain.

Agree 100%. Remember Adam's famous comment from 2004, "Why aren't we skiing up there instead of down here?"
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5654
Should more resources have been devoted to that rather than a stairway up Palmyra Peak that no one aside from iron-lunged locals will ever use? The 10-20-minute Gold Hill hike(s) are adequately accessible to visiting advanced skiers.

The other area - a big intermediate pod near chair 10. That is what the masses like - and want.

Chair 10 is REALLY flat. Where is the decent intermediate terrain that hasn't been developed? Telluride still has a significant "hole" at the low intermediate level IMHO. Historically it was one of the worst destinations for intermediates in general until Plunge and Bushwacker got on the grooming rotation to become the premier advanced intermediate runs they are now. People on these forums often bash overgrooming, but when you have an unbalanced mountain it can be a smart idea to attract a wider audience.

Anyways, owner Chuck Hornig who knows cancer rehab - fired almost every Telluride exec last season (for fun?) - we will see. His management is a total nightmare.

I recall effusive praise from ChrisC for prior management. Perhaps someone else is unhappy all the improvements have not increased the skier numbers.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Generally, the mountain gets close to 100% open on a 40" base by Xmas - pre special, radical high Alpine late season terrain which opens Feb 1st.

In some idle, lack of snow time here I've organized early season percent-of-terrain-open stats for several areas in addition to the long term records I already had for Mammoth and I-70 Colorado. As these are taken from my Season Progress Reports they date no farther back than 1997 and in many cases for only a decade. A decade is about the minimum for that kind of stat to mean much.

For Telluride since 2003:
mid-December: 25th, 50th and 75th percentile of terrain open: 36%, 38%, 45%
January 1: 25th, 50th and 75th precentile of terrain open: 69%, 80%, 90%
mid-January: 25th, 50th and 75th precentile of terrain open: 79%, 93%, 98%
End of January is the earliest date Telluride is 100% open in as many as half of seasons.

Last year stands out like a sore thumb among the past 11 where I've been tracking: 6% open Dec. 15, 33% Jan. 1 and 45% Jan. 15. However, in terms of November + December snowfall at Telluride 1976-77, 1980-81, 1989-90 and 1999-2000 were worse than last year. So the odds of a busted Christmas are in the 15% range.