Xmas Week Question

[schubwa]

So survey says: Jackson/Targhee. Hey, I want to go too! Probably the only real drawback is Teton Pass separating you from the other ski area or where you're staying. Driving to Big Sky isn't out of the question, or visiting Yellowstone for a day to nordic or snomo either.

It's interesting how my home area gets mentioned whenever we start talking about length of season, snow preservation, reliability, lift lines, funnest town, reasonable prices, etc. and yet most if not all go elsewhere. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that explains the bountiful freshies and short lines.

 

[Tony Crocker]

It's interesting how my home area gets mentioned whenever we start talking about length of season, snow preservation, reliability, lift lines, funnest town, reasonable prices, etc. and yet most if not all go elsewhere.

Mostly travel logistics/cost from the East. We're still waiting for Jason to explain why he can't use the same FF miles to Portland as to Reno or Denver. That removes most of the deterrent IMHO.

This undoubtedly entered into Powdr Corp's decision to give up on Bachelor as a national destination. I think the access from California is not bad, but Powdr also gave up on the L.A. Ski Dazzle show.

 

[lookn4powder]

...
This undoubtedly entered into Powdr Corp's decision to give up on Bachelor as a national destination. I think the access from California is not bad, but Powdr also gave up on the L.A. Ski Dazzle show.

The Reno to Mammoth drive requires a 4wd rental to comply with chain laws, and 4wd is often handy in ski country during midwinter. But in both Washington and Oregon I've found that chains or studs are needed, due to freezing rain (assuming movement is possible at all). Mandatory chains also seems to be invoked often when we have traveled through Government Camp on the way to Bachelor. I have wondered if this reality was a factor that Powdr did not consider fully and then forced them to withdraw.

Jeff

 

[Tony Crocker]

There is a local airport at Redmond, with Horizon flights from Portland, and in some years there are flights from SF. 2 of my 6 trips I've flown into Redmond. If Jason can get in there with FF miles that would be ideal, but it's still worth it if he has to drive from Portland.

The Reno to Mammoth drive requires a 4wd rental to comply with chain laws.....

The probability on a given day is relatively low, surely less than 10%. At Bachelor/Mammoth you're exposed only on the travel in-and-out days; you can use shuttles if necessary on your ski days. At Tahoe you're exposed every day you ski; I'm more inclined to recommend 4WD there.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

To reiterate, a long-distance Xmas trip like this is an extreme exercise in "pick your poison" -- with major compromises in several parts of the equation: crowded mountains and towns, expensive accomms and flights (with FF awards blacked-out or raised to the 50,000-mile level), and long death marches to reach the out-of-the-way places. If you choose a place with a cheaper airfare (Denver), you know that you'll pay the price in other areas. The wild-card option that I put on the table, New Mexico, is less expensive, offers a bunch of different ski hills within a 40-minute drive, and has a cultural/cuisine component that you can't get elsewhere (the western version of a ski trip to Quebec), but also introduces a higher possibility of subpar conditions.

There's simply no way to pull this off without putting a tire iron in your wallet; thus, Jason's nickel-and-diming on airfare is unreasonable. :stir:

* * *

Schubwa's Bachelor TRs haven't gone unnoticed, but as Tony points out, the trek there from the East Coast is a major deterrent. As good as the skiing may be at places like Whistler, Mammoth, Bachelor, etc., if you're looking at more than nine hours of plane/car travel to reach your destination, you may as well go to the Alps.

 

[EMSC]

I'd also argue that one reason a Tahoe or JH/GT gets bumped higher in priority is the multiple options theory. Aka you're not going to ski just one place. You have at a minimum two (3 with Snow King) or a full dozen options in Tahoe...

If you have not been to any of them prior, I'd argue that most folks inclination is to hit several resorts on a trip instead of locking into just Bachelor; which I can also plug as a very nice place to go BTW.

 

[Patrick]

I'd also argue that one reason a Tahoe or JH/GT gets bumped higher in priority is the multiple options theory. Aka you're not going to ski just one place. You have at a minimum two (3 with Snow King) or a full dozen options in Tahoe...

We'll the people that we reading FTO back in September 2005 now what happened to my initial planned trip to Jackson Hole...it went from 1 ski area to 5 to 8!!! :mrgreen: 13 days out West, 13 days on skis, 8 different areas in 3 states.

But I agree, driving a long distance after a long flight with family in toe isn't an option (ie. Whistler from Seattle).

Agree with everyone that suggested using to points to fly at low key places. No Denver or SLC. Go to Bozeman, Jackson, Idaho Falls, Bend, Portland...or Terrace (oh right, US only).

 

[Tony Crocker]

If you have not been to any of them prior, I'd argue that most folks inclination is to hit several resorts on a trip instead of locking into just Bachelor

That is my general view, and Patrick's also. Not so much for many people from what I read, particularly with families in tow. Most families, if the mountain is big and diverse enough, are content to be in one place for a week. Bachelor is the most underrated large mountain in North America IMHO.

Christmas week has so many pitfalls; I really think crowd avoidance should be a top priority. This, and snow reliability, are where Bachelor stands out. You get a storm that snarls traffic in Tahoe during that time; you're not going to be happy. That was one of my Christmas week trips; I ended up skiing one day out of six. GPaul's experience was somewhat similar IIRC.

JH/GT is the clear second pick among options discussed. Like Reno-Mammoth and Portland-Bend, there are only 2 days you'll be committed to driving across Teton Pass. I do think there will be liftline issues at Jackson, and Bachelor is a better fit terrain-wise for Jason & family. If it were Patrick & Morgane I would take the opposite view.

 

[rfarren]

if you're looking at more than nine hours of plane/car travel to reach your destination, you may as well go to the Alps.

I agree with that even though I haven't followed that advice as of yet, mainly because the price of europe is the major deterrent.

 

[Tony Crocker]

if you're looking at more than nine hours of plane/car travel to reach your destination, you may as well go to the Alps.

I agree with that too in principle for the easterners, but not at Christmas. Snowfall is generally not abundant by North American standards. Throw in high latitude alpine flat light and I don't recommend going over there before February. There may be a few higher snowfall exceptions like the Arlberg.

 

[rfarren]

if you're looking at more than nine hours of plane/car travel to reach your destination, you may as well go to the Alps.

I agree with that too in principle for the easterners, but not at Christmas. Snowfall is generally not abundant by North American standards. Throw in high latitude alpine flat light and I don't recommend going over there before February. There may be a few higher snowfall exceptions like the Arlberg.

THe hard part about a place like the alberg is the long flight followed by the long bus/car ride. Again, the euro is pretty brutal, but at least austria is cheaper than switzerland.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

THe hard part about a place like the alberg is the long flight followed by the long bus/car ride.

It's an eight-hour flight to Zurich, followed by a 2.5-hour bus/train ride, so about the same total travel time as to Whistler, Bachelor, Mammoth, Whitewater/Red, etc. from the east coast. I've never been to those places, but I find it hard to believe that the overall experience compares to the Arlberg.

01.22.2012 - 02.04.2012
- 7-day half board
- 6-day ski pass
- Gala Dinner
- Traditional fondue night
Euro 1.013,-- per person - Standard room ($1,381 US)
Euro 1.083,-- per person - Comfort room
Euro 1.223,-- per person - de Luxe room
http://www.sandhof.at/en/hotel-philosophy.html

Apologies again for being the region's unpaid cheerleader, but even at today's crappy exchange rate, that ^^^ (lodging + six-day ski pass to the entire region + fantastic breakfasts/dinners at a very comfortable three-star place in Lech) is still a great value.

 

[berkshireskier]

For what it is worth, here is the Accuweather long-term forecast through mid-December.
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/s ... -to-mi.asp

Forecast is for warm and dry through the middle of December in much of the inter-Mountain West - NOT good for skiing, although, as we all know, these long-term forecasts are almost 100% guesswork. Nonetheless, I would choose a vacation location where there is something besides skiing that you would want to do.

 

[jasoncapecod]

i assume those prices don't include airfare

as of today the eruo is 1.34

 

[Patrick]

as of today the eruo is 1.34

Really? The Euro was 1.45 versus the CDN $ a few weeks (and the CDN $ was stronger than the US$ at that time. Wow, that is a big change.

Apologies again for being the region's unpaid cheerleader, but even at today's crappy exchange rate, that ^^^ (lodging + six-day ski pass to the entire region + fantastic breakfasts/dinners at a very comfortable three-star place in Lech) is still a great value.

Agree on most of James' statement, however jetlag and time different flying to Europe is harder to adjust than a simple 2-3 hour time different. Cost of bringing skis (or that extra bag) to go to Europe is pretty steep for most airlines.

Again, the euro is pretty brutal, but at least austria is cheaper than switzerland.

Swiss Franc is pretty close to par with the Euro right now. Plus everything is much more expensive in Switzerland versus French or Austrian Alps. Meals, travel, skiing and beer.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Apologies again for being the region's unpaid cheerleader, but even at today's crappy exchange rate, that ^^^ (lodging + six-day ski pass to the entire region + fantastic breakfasts/dinners at a very comfortable three-star place in Lech) is still a great value.

Agree on most of James' statement, however jetlag and time different flying to Europe is harder to adjust than a simple 2-3 hour time different. Cost of bringing skis (or that extra bag) to go to Europe is pretty steep for most airlines.

You're going to be hit with the same bag fees going West (even with FF miles) as to Europe unless you're on Southwest.

However, I think james' above quote is irrelevant to this thread because Jason won't get close to that price in Lech during Christmas week IMHO.

I do thank james for the info, because I think that deal at the end of January for the Arlberg is very attractive. Next year I'm already booked in interior B.C. from Jan. 16 - 31, but one of these years I'm going to make room for it as the Arlberg is near the top of my short list of not-yet-skied places.

 

[Patrick]

You're going to be hit with the same bag fees going West (even with FF miles) as to Europe unless you're on Southwest.

Air Canada charges (used) to charge much more for a ski bag for Europe ($50 each way) versus US ($25 or 30 each way). It was still free for Canada and South America. Not sure about elsewhere.

I do thank james for the info, because I think that deal at the end of January for the Arlberg is very attractive. Next year I'm already booked in interior B.C. from Jan. 16 - 31, but one of these years I'm going to make room for it as the Arlberg is near the top of my short list of not-yet-skied places.

Yes, your list is too North American, you need to get some European skiing in now that you're retired. I can't believe you going to get to ski Antarctica before you get to Austria.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

james' above quote is irrelevant to this thread because Jason won't get close to that price in Lech during Christmas week IMHO

True. I was responding to something rfarren posted.

Moreover, if past experiences are any guide, Jason is going to pull a Gpaul and not go -- and we'll be left with a useless 100-post thread. :-s

 

[berkshireskier]

james' above quote is irrelevant to this thread because Jason won't get close to that price in Lech during Christmas week IMHO

True. I was responding to something rfarren posted.

Moreover, if past experiences are any guide, Jason is going to pull a Gpaul and not go -- and we'll be left with a useless 100-post thread. :-s

Yea, but, at least, it will give all of the FTO posters some "pre-season" practice at arguing where is the best place to ski.

 

[jasoncapecod]

Moreover, if past experiences are any guide, Jason is going to pull a Gpaul and not go -- and we'll be left with a useless 100-post thread. :-s

What a kick in the stones =; :lol: