Xmas Week Question

[Tony Crocker]

Yes, your list is too North American

31 areas outside North America. But relative to ski significance, Europe is certainly the most underrepresented region at 8 so far. Europe may continue to be difficult to schedule as its optimal month is March, where I have ongoing commitments to the Iron Blosam and, both last year and next year, NASJA annual meetings.

 

[rfarren]

THe hard part about a place like the alberg is the long flight followed by the long bus/car ride.

It's an eight-hour flight to Zurich, followed by a 2.5-hour bus/train ride, so about the same total travel time as to Whistler, Bachelor, Mammoth, Whitewater/Red, etc. from the east coast. I've never been to those places, but I find it hard to believe that the overall experience compares to the Arlberg.

Vancouver is not an 8 hour direct flight, but Patrick hit it on the head that jet lag is the big determining factor. I would agree however that the Alberg's overall experience will be superior to that of Whistler, but I like Europe, some people wouldn't, and if I were traveling with a family that wouldn't be my first choice.

01.22.2012 - 02.04.2012
- 7-day half board
- 6-day ski pass
- Gala Dinner
- Traditional fondue night
Euro 1.013,-- per person - Standard room ($1,381 US)
Euro 1.083,-- per person - Comfort room
Euro 1.223,-- per person - de Luxe room
http://www.sandhof.at/en/hotel-philosophy.html

Apologies again for being the region's unpaid cheerleader, but even at today's crappy exchange rate, that ^^^ (lodging + six-day ski pass to the entire region + fantastic breakfasts/dinners at a very comfortable three-star place in Lech) is still a great value.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't include airfare, but that aside, I believe the actual lift tickets in Europe are cheaper. However, for many advanced skiers it would be very worthwhile to hire a guide, and therefore the cost my go up quite a bit. However, Europe's value for high quality food is absolutely better than that found in North America where high quality food is considered the exception not the rule.

 

[Patrick]

Yes, your list is too North American

31 areas outside North America. But relative to ski significance, Europe is certainly the most underrepresented region at 8 so far.

You got my point, Europe is an important element and your 8 ski areas represent nothing compare to your NA, mostly West experiences (a small percentage of your overall ski areas and infinitely small portion of your ski days).

The point is that your 6th continent (and really, the last ski place on Earth - Africa isn't as far fetch and exotic skiing wise) before you ski Austria.

Vancouver is not an 8 hour direct flight, but Patrick hit it on the head that jet lag is the big determining factor. I would agree however that the Alberg's overall experience will be superior to that of Whistler, but I like Europe, some people wouldn't, and if I were traveling with a family that wouldn't be my first choice.

Flying a 11-hour flight from Toronto to Santiago CHL is easier than flying a 6-7 hour flight to Europe. That time difference is hard, especially flying to Europe.

People wanted to rank up the verts and yoyoing would generally prefer NA. I like everything. Skiing the Jungfrau doesn't have the most challenging on piste terrain, but it's a classic. If you dig the atmosphere of the original alpine setting, you'll love the place. I presume the same comments could applies to St.Anton em Arlberg.

 

[Tony Crocker]

jet lag is the big determining factor

I think that's an exaggeration. In my case it's 9 hours time change to Europe, both of my trips were only one week and I don't recall much of an issue. First day was easy in both cases (a warm-up day at Le Tour in Chamonix, a tourist morning in Grenoble on the way to La Grave). Once I'm outside exercising during the day, I rarely have any issues falling asleep and sleeping soundly through the night. I think the jet lag is more of a factor if you're doing a lot of driving. I remember a couple of evening drives in Australia in July 1997 where I had to leave the window wide open to help keep alert.

for many advanced skiers it would be very worthwhile to hire a guide

This is almost universally recommended, and of course at La Grave it's nearly essential. In Chamonix with NASJA we had 2 guides and 24 people, so sometimes it was lowest common denominator skiing. With smaller groups it's a big benefit, and in some of the huge places like Verbier it's worth doing for the first day just to get a good survey of the region so you'll be more informed skiing on your own later.

if I were traveling with a family that wouldn't be my first choice.

Agree. More logical for people like me.

Jungfrau doesn't have the most challenging on piste terrain, but it's a classic. If you dig the atmosphere of the original alpine setting, you'll love the place. I presume the same comments could applies to St.Anton em Arlberg.

The Arlberg has both ski quality and the atmosphere; that's why it's high on most people's lists. It's the only place in Europe Garry Klassen skied, and I think he was so impressed he went back there a second time instead of trying someplace new.

Africa isn't as far fetch and exotic skiing wise

Richard was in Morocco late February last season. His tour drove across the Atlas Mts past a couple of the modest size ski areas. Usually it's all done by the end of February. The season was winding down even though it was by consensus above average, as evidenced by the coastal side of the mountains being very green at the time.

 

[Patrick]

jet lag is the big determining factor

I think that's an exaggeration. In my case it's 9 hours time change to Europe, both of my trips were only one week and I don't recall much of an issue.

Maybe not for you, but I find it difficult compared to a simple 2-3 hours. The killer is the flyover where you basically might get a 1-2 hour nap before they wake you up for breakfast at 3-4am (Eastern Time), usually about 30 minutes after you finaily manage to fall asleep.

Having travel to Europe (7 times in the last 20 years), I tend to agree more with rfarren on this. However it might not be the case for everyone. It wouldn't be a determining factor, but you definitely notice and it affect some people.

 

[rfarren]

jet lag is the big determining factor

I think that's an exaggeration. In my case it's 9 hours time change to Europe, both of my trips were only one week and I don't recall much of an issue.

I tend to agree more with rfarren on this. However it might not be the case for everyone. It wouldn't be a determining factor, but you definitely notice and it affect some people.

I fly to europe quite often, once or twice a year, and as I've gotten older my jet lag has gotten worse (and I sleep for 3-4 hours on the flight). On the third day of my honeymoon my wife and I went on a massive hike from the top of the firstbahn down to gridelwald, and I still woke up at 3 in the morning. I would say jet lag is completely dependent on the person.

On a side note I visited Morocco last november and drove through the Atlas mountains where the largest resorts are in Morocco. My take was it wasn't worth visiting to ski. If you happened to be there and want to ski on a lark that would make sense, but the terrain doesn't make sense as a destination ski trip.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Moreover, if past experiences are any guide, Jason is going to pull a Gpaul and not go -- and we'll be left with a useless 100-post thread. :-s

What a kick in the stones =; :lol:

Fine, I'll put my cynicism aside for a moment -- given all of the info and opinions you've received, where are you in the decision-making process?

In any case, you should get moving on plane tix.

 

[q]

I would say jet lag is completely dependent on the person.

As most are aware I fly to the USA from Aberdeen annually via 3 flights to Montana and agree with this 100%, it is simply down to the individual.

I actually think jet lag is BS but that's my perspective.

I go to bed at 10-11pm the night before after a whisky with dad to start the holiday, get up at ~3.30am to get dropped off in Aberdeen for 4.30am checkin, grab a beer at 5am and head to Amsterdam(90 mins). There I have a 90 minute layover before an 8 hour flight to Minneapolis, a couple beers there and onto Montana arriving at 7pm local time which back home is 2am or there about so almost 24 hours of actual travel and I ain't slept yet. I then head to a tavern for a couple beers before bed. Up he next day and on the road by 8am. No drama, no BS.

On the way home I get up at ~6am for a 8am flight from Missoula to Minneapolis, a few beers there then onto Amsterdam arriving around 6am local time the following day and home in Aberdeen at 10.15am. I don't sleep at all on the planes and stay up as long as I can at night until I cant keep my eyes open meaning roughly 32+ hours from the time I get up til I finally head to bed.

I look at all these folks sleeping and coming off at the other end looking like they have done 12 rounds with Tyson and wonder who is right and who is wrong.

 

[berkshireskier]

I would say jet lag is completely dependent on the person.

As most are aware I fly to the USA from Aberdeen annually via 3 flights to Montana and agree with this 100%, it is simply down to the individual.

I actually think jet lag is BS but that's my perspective.

I go to bed at 10-11pm the night before after a whisky with dad to start the holiday, get up at ~3.30am to get dropped off in Aberdeen for 4.30am checkin, grab a beer at 5am and head to Amsterdam(90 mins). There I have a 90 minute layover before an 8 hour flight to Minneapolis, a couple beers there and onto Montana arriving at 7pm local time which back home is 2am or there about so almost 24 hours of actual travel and I ain't slept yet. I then head to a tavern for a couple beers before bed. Up he next day and on the road by 8am. No drama, no BS.

On the way home I get up at ~6am for a 8am flight from Missoula to Minneapolis, a few beers there then onto Amsterdam arriving around 6am local time the following day and home in Aberdeen at 10.15am. I don't sleep at all on the planes and stay up as long as I can at night until I cant keep my eyes open meaning roughly 32+ hours from the time I get up til I finally head to bed.

I look at all these folks sleeping and coming off at the other end looking like they have done 12 rounds with Tyson and wonder who is right and who is wrong.

LOL, q. Maybe drinking beer is the key to beating jet lag ???

 

[jasoncapecod]

Fine, I'll put my cynicism aside for a moment -- given all of the info and opinions you've received, where are you in the decision-making process?

In any case, you should get moving on plane ti

i totally agree..since the the European financial markets have imploded/exploded..my wife has been crushed at work. when she gets home , a ski trip is the last thing she wants to deal with..that said, hopefully we can come up with a decision this week..

 

[rfarren]

since the the European financial markets have imploded/exploded..my wife has been crushed at work. when she gets home , a ski trip is the last thing she wants to deal with..that said, hopefully we can come up with a decision this week..

I bet Jason's trip ends up being a Caribbean beach holiday... :lol:

 

[Tony Crocker]

so almost 24 hours of actual travel and I ain't slept yet.

This is what I think works for me. If I'm that tired and I go to bed 8, 9, 10PM local time, there's no way I'm going to wake up at 3. I'm always going to sleep hard for 8+ hours in that situation, which takes care of most of the adjustment.

On the third day of my honeymoon my wife and I went on a massive hike from the top of the firstbahn down to gridelwald, and I still woke up at 3 in the morning. I would say jet lag is completely dependent on the person.

Must be. As noted above I can't see myself waking up at 3AM in that scenario. The high level of activity would adjust me to local time very fast. But if I'm on a tourist bus or in a theater watching a show the day I arrive from several time zones, I'm quite likely to zone out in that situation.

I bet Jason's trip ends up being a Caribbean beach holiday...

Possibly preferable to most destination ski resorts during Christmas week. Though I'm sure no bargains there either. As some of you know, during 3 of Andrew's high school years he had a whole week off at Thanksgiving, and we went to the Caribbean for all of them. One of those years we had early snow in CA so I went to Mammoth the weekend before a week in Belize. FYI the Belize week was a bargain, and the 2 cruise weeks were reasonable in price, not jacked up like they would be at Christmas/New Years.

 

[jasoncapecod]

bet Jason's trip ends up being a Caribbean beach holiday... :lol:

i have a tropical vacation book Easter week

 

[Admin]

If I'm that tired and I go to bed 8, 9, 10PM local time, there's no way I'm going to wake up at 3.

Yeah, but anyone within earshot of you will.

 

[Tony Crocker]

i have a tropical vacation book Easter week

The wrong order IMHO. Easter week is better for skiing if you go the right place (Mammoth, Bachelor, most of Colorado, etc.)

 

[jasoncapecod]

The wrong order IMHO. Easter week is better for skiing if you go the right place (Mammoth, Bachelor, most of Colorado, etc.)

I realize that, but the entire family is going , to celebrate milestone B-Days and Anniversaries...

 

[Patrick]

If I'm that tired and I go to bed 8, 9, 10PM local time, there's no way I'm going to wake up at 3.

Yeah, but anyone within earshot of you will.

So if you go to Europe* make sure Tony is in a separate room at least 100 yards from you. :lol:

I realize this applies anywhere and not necessarily only to Europe. How big is that Antarctica boat? :-k

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Yeah, but anyone within earshot of you will.

Middle age must be creeping up on Admin -- it took him almost six hours to make a Tony snoring joke. :mrgreen:

 

[Admin]

Yeah, but anyone within earshot of you will.

Middle age must be creeping up on Admin -- it took him almost six hours to make a Tony snoring joke. :mrgreen:

Hey, folks, I'll be here all week. Try the veal!

Sent from my Android device using Tapatalk

 

[Marc_C]

The wrong order IMHO. Easter week is better for skiing if you go the right place (Mammoth, Bachelor, most of Colorado, etc.)

I realize that, but the entire family is going , to celebrate milestone B-Days and Anniversaries...

Once again, Tony looses sight that there are reasons for travel during the winter other than skiing.