SoCal Rider
New member
rfarren":m45fd8bc said:
How do you scrape a pillow?
LCC/BCC Conditions
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How do you scrape a pillow?
ChrisC
Well-known member
rfarren":2n7r3v9i said:
Snowboarders and their effect on terrain help form a preference for Alta over Snowbird on a powder day. Not the deciding factor, but important.
I find the Gad / Cirque chutes can easily be slayed by a boarder/board area - often upon the first/second/third tram. No room for decent sloppy seconds / chowdah. Often scraping it down to sometimes rock/ice. (I witness this all too often at Telluride - except). Also, the Gad 1& 2 areas can get tracked quickly since they are relatviely constricted.
Also, Alta is superior in opening terrain quickly. For example, I have witnessed Snowbird's Mineral Basin & Little Cloud/Provo Road Area consistently closed for an entire day for control work after many 12"+ storms. Meanwhile, Alta is able to open Devil's Castle - plus everything else - same storm day.
I also find Alta's terrain more open - Backside, almost the entire Collins drainage, Devil's, parts of Supreme. These are broad powder fields that patrol / local's work to maximize powder turns. Finally, I tend to have better luck finding late PM pockets of snow at Alta in Eagle's Nest, Supreme, Westard Ho areas - even Greeley. Although Snowbird - some areas like Wilbere/Mach Schnell stay good.
Snowbird's 10k tram pass? Who cares. I am as suprised by the cost of some of the retro-lodges at the base of Alta.
This Alta/Snowbird - old school/new school dynamic plays out in Tahoe between Alpine Meadows/Squaw....and in Canada at Whistler/Blackcomb.
Patrick
Well-known member
rfarren":3v5jok4d said:
You really want the whole thing? There might be some cliff notes of that discussion. :shock:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=196
My intangibles favor Snowbird. I'm nonetheless open to the points ChrisC enumerates regarding powder days. I can't comment on the terrain closures because in my 52 days at Snowbird I'm not sure I've seen an entire day with the tram closed. I've seen a couple of days with delayed opening of Road to Provo, but on those days I was skiing the Peruvian side or Mineral Basin early in the morning.
If some of you would get around more, you would see that the differences between Alta and Snowbird pale beside both areas' superiority over nearly everywhere else.
If some of you would get around more, you would see that the differences between Alta and Snowbird pale beside both areas' superiority over nearly everywhere else.
In the past Admin did get around a lot. It's not that surprising since his move that he doesn't now.
MarcC's post above is a statement about needing a large sample size to draw statistical conclusions. Nonetheless zero full day tram closures out of my 52 at Snowbird does mean something. I assure all that if you skied 52 days at Squaw, Alpine or Mammoth over the years, it would be miraculous if the number of days the top of those mountains were closed was less than 10. And some like ChrisC say Alta's track record in this regard is better than Snowbird's. Just one more reason you SLC locals are really spoiled.
MarcC's post above is a statement about needing a large sample size to draw statistical conclusions. Nonetheless zero full day tram closures out of my 52 at Snowbird does mean something. I assure all that if you skied 52 days at Squaw, Alpine or Mammoth over the years, it would be miraculous if the number of days the top of those mountains were closed was less than 10. And some like ChrisC say Alta's track record in this regard is better than Snowbird's. Just one more reason you SLC locals are really spoiled.
Marc_C
Active member
I can recall, at minimum, 7 days this season alone when the tram was down for wind, and that's with the software and system upgrades 3 years ago that allow the tram to operate in much higher winds (it can handle a 65mph headwind from the south and up to a 55mph cross wind from the west). In contrast, this season Alta shut down Collins, Sugarloaf, and Supreme due to winds 3, 3, and 2 days, respectively. On one of those days, the only lifts running were Wildcat and the transfer tow - all of Albion Basin was closed - it was gusting to 95mph on the ridge tops.Tony Crocker":1v4nzam1 said:
You bet we're spoiled! In 8 seasons here, I've never managed to bother driving to Targhee, Jackson, Big Sky, or any of the Colorado areas. Somehow 4 - 8 hrs of driving (like I used to do from central CT to VT, NH, or ME) just don't favorably compare to 20 - 40 minutes. I mean, I even work in Park City now - I look out the window across the street and see the Olympic ski jumps and The Canyons. If so motivated, a dawn patrol in Mill Creek or Lambs canyons is easily doable*, as they're both on the way. What? Drive 6 hrs to Steamboat or 5hrs to Jackson???
*: assuming I can get my lazy butt out of bed early enough. Early mornings and I have an antagonistic relationship.
Out of what, 110+ that Snowbird has been open? They would kill for that track record at Mammoth (winter top of the mountain closure rate ~25%) or Mt. Bachelor (closer to 50%).
A 6% top closure rate at Snowbird vs. 3% at Alta is a point for Alta. But this is just one more example of the differences between the two areas being trivial but the difference vs. other areas being much more.
ChrisC
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":3uho9a07 said:
You are correct - I meant to reference the Road to Provo drainage / Little Cloud area - NOT the Peruvian drainage. My mistake. Wind can take the tram down - seen it go down before.
I have seen Snowbird hold Mineral/Provo for the entire day on at least 2 occasions. Especially in storms where 20" were recorded.
On a December day, the day after in Mineral/Provo were perhaps better since they was less competition. The Tiger Tail/High Baldy areas might open later that day or the next. Better staggered openings at Snowbird.....alternative powder strategy for day after storm skiing.
On a March 20"+ day - Snowbird indicated control work for the day on website for Mineral. It makes the decision for Alta even easier -- Alta staggered Collins, to backside to Supreme to Devil's Castle. Easy to have fresh tracks all day.
icelanticskier
New member
how is the skiing out there? we got pow here. quite a season so far.
rog
rog
tirolerpeter
New member
icelanticskier":3cjn6ujs said:
It's pretty bad rog. Best you stay home.
icelanticskier
New member
tirolerpeter":3kosd0b5 said:
ya, i cancelled out a few weeks ago.
rog
tirolerpeter
New member
icelanticskier":2juosd4h said:
What's your take on this?
Excerpt from a report from the Northeast, where it was epic snow, warm, warmer, really warm with lots of rain, then 15F.
-m
> Wow - 15 years or so patrolling and Saturday had to be one of the worst days I've seen.
>
> The trails had wall to wall, top to bottom porcelain. And in true Okemo fashion, it was the hardest, smoothest, shiniest, best prepared porcelain anywhere. Those people who refinish old bath tubs would be proud.
>
> It was so bad Okemo actually did something I've never seen and by all accounts I heard has never happened before at modern-day Okemo - they closed Lower Arrow and brought out the groomers - at about 11:00AM! But it was too late - by that time everyone had quit tying to ski. They had 30+ busses, it was a Saturday in February and at 11:30 the Northstar corral was empty. Empty!
>
> The good news is that days like Saturday are usually the perfect storm for patrol to be busy: clear skies, not too cold and a Saturday after a dump during the prior week will mean crowds. Add in 30 busses and now you've got more crowds, many of them novices. Add in below freezing temps after a thaw and you get very fast conditions. Perfect storm. Fortunately, it was too perfect and we had a slow day.
icelanticskier
New member
my take is that i'm sure glad that i wasn't at okemo or anywhere up north this past weekend. i was skiing corn in the bc near the seacoast where it was actally warm enough to soften, then on monday i skied a foot of fresh at gunstock while northern areas didn't even get half that.
tuesday i skied 10 inches of that same storm snow untracked in the stratham hills in so nh. today i skied untracked windbuff and 4 inches of new on a soft base on mt washington and will ski up there tomorrow and friday. i was the only one at the gulf of slides today and the skiing was damn near perfect.
so, these negative reports like the one below are from folks that just go skiing and take what they get. i ski every day (today was 38 days in a row, 75 for the season) and go where the best snow is, and there is always good snow. like friday, the day where everything up north turned to ice from rain. i was skiing on mt washington on that misty morning b4 the rains came and the skiing was lovely untracked mashed potatoes. saturday temps dropped, things froze, so as i stated above, i skied perfect corn on south aspects down south.
that's my take.
rog
> Wow - 15 years or so patrolling and Saturday had to be one of the worst days I've seen.
>
> The trails had wall to wall, top to bottom porcelain. And in true Okemo fashion, it was the hardest, smoothest, shiniest, best prepared porcelain anywhere. Those people who refinish old bath tubs would be proud.
>
> It was so bad Okemo actually did something I've never seen and by all accounts I heard has never happened before at modern-day Okemo - they closed Lower Arrow and brought out the groomers - at about 11:00AM! But it was too late - by that time everyone had quit tying to ski. They had 30+ busses, it was a Saturday in February and at 11:30 the Northstar corral was empty. Empty!
>
> The good news is that days like Saturday are usually the perfect storm for patrol to be busy: clear skies, not too cold and a Saturday after a dump during the prior week will mean crowds. Add in 30 busses and now you've got more crowds, many of them novices. Add in below freezing temps after a thaw and you get very fast conditions. Perfect storm. Fortunately, it was too perfect and we had a slow day.[/quote]
tuesday i skied 10 inches of that same storm snow untracked in the stratham hills in so nh. today i skied untracked windbuff and 4 inches of new on a soft base on mt washington and will ski up there tomorrow and friday. i was the only one at the gulf of slides today and the skiing was damn near perfect.
so, these negative reports like the one below are from folks that just go skiing and take what they get. i ski every day (today was 38 days in a row, 75 for the season) and go where the best snow is, and there is always good snow. like friday, the day where everything up north turned to ice from rain. i was skiing on mt washington on that misty morning b4 the rains came and the skiing was lovely untracked mashed potatoes. saturday temps dropped, things froze, so as i stated above, i skied perfect corn on south aspects down south.
that's my take.
rog
> Wow - 15 years or so patrolling and Saturday had to be one of the worst days I've seen.
>
> The trails had wall to wall, top to bottom porcelain. And in true Okemo fashion, it was the hardest, smoothest, shiniest, best prepared porcelain anywhere. Those people who refinish old bath tubs would be proud.
>
> It was so bad Okemo actually did something I've never seen and by all accounts I heard has never happened before at modern-day Okemo - they closed Lower Arrow and brought out the groomers - at about 11:00AM! But it was too late - by that time everyone had quit tying to ski. They had 30+ busses, it was a Saturday in February and at 11:30 the Northstar corral was empty. Empty!
>
> The good news is that days like Saturday are usually the perfect storm for patrol to be busy: clear skies, not too cold and a Saturday after a dump during the prior week will mean crowds. Add in 30 busses and now you've got more crowds, many of them novices. Add in below freezing temps after a thaw and you get very fast conditions. Perfect storm. Fortunately, it was too perfect and we had a slow day.[/quote]
Peter, you committed a major breach of etiquette above. Not only did you publicly post the content of an email that wasn't addressed to you, which in and of itself is questionable, but you also posted the name and email address of the original sender! I've gone and edited that out of your post (and of Roger's that quoted it). Please don't ever do that again.
icelanticskier
New member
Admin":83l6b5a7 said:
wow, i didn't realize anything was wrong.
rog