Mountain High: Saving $ or Drought Survival Mode?

[Marc_C]

Think about it - the mtns get 250-300" of snow/yr while NYC averages 40" or so...

Minor correction: NYC averages 49.7" of precipitation/year. The average snowfall 1971-2000 is 22". [Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City ]

 

[Mike Bernstein]

At the end of the day, in my opinion (having lived in Philadelphia for 20 years and done the trip to VT/NY about a dozen times) weekend skiing in VT/NY is too crowded and the terrain just doesn't compare to make it worth a weekend trip which would included hotels and a 3+ hr drive at best. Having Baldy/Waterman an hour away for almost 1/2 the winter is great, and being a short, direct flight to pretty much all the best skiing in the west is perfect for me. The thought of driving 3+ hrs (if I lived in Boston) to ski crowed VT slopes just doesn't appeal to me after living out west and skiing exclusively out west the past four years.

If crowding was an issue for you in the northeast, I'd say you were skiing in the wrong places. In VT, once you get past Killington, you have resorts with half the skier traffic, more snow, longer runs, and better terrain. I've done ski weekends based out of the Sunapee area in NH with one day at Mt Sunapee, one at Burke Mtn. and one at Sugarbush. Though they are only 90 minutes apart, the difference between those three areas is remarkable in terms of natural snowfall, skier traffic and, consequently, snow surfaces. That said, when you have to deal with booking a hotel and all of the inconveniences that come with that (booking it, paying out the nose, schlepping your crap, sleeping in an unfamiliar bed etc..), it's not surprising that the northeast would be less attractive to you. It's not unlike my experience in Mammoth thus far. Everything changes, IMO, when you have a home base.

The wild card for is the easy access by air to SLC, Reno and even Aspen. That poses challenges for families with kids, which is why I prefer to measure on the basis of driving accessibility, but YMMV based on your personal situation.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Once those kids are old enough, pack them in the car for a week in Utah and the value for dollar will blow away anything you could have done living in the Northeast.

Everything changes, IMO, when you have a home base.

You had to put in some effort to arrange that in the Northeast. I'm not sure it would be that much more difficult at Mammoth.

YMMV based on your personal situation.

Absolutely. Even in my family years I preferred travel and variety enough not to tie myself and family to one place or subregion. I suspect with young children more people would opt like Mike for a "home base."

 

[Mike Bernstein]

Think about it - the mtns get 250-300" of snow/yr while NYC averages 40" or so...

Minor correction: NYC averages 49.7" of precipitation/year. The average snowfall 1971-2000 is 22". [Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City ]

that just further underlines the point that the driving is a lot better than you would think on avg. when the conditions are great in the mtns.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

socal's last paragraph pretty much nails the L.A. vs. NYC or MASH comparison. The good areas for powder need to be within daytrip not overnight distance (last minute planning is key) for an eastern locale to be competitive with L.A. IMHO. I will leave it to individual preference whether a 3+ hour one way drive from Boston to central/northern Vermont qualifies. Montreal is the only big eastern metro area that clearly passes that daytrip test IMHO.

For me, 3 hours is absolutely doable. Pack the night before, up at 5:30, on the road at 6:00, at the hill by 9:00 and on the lift at 9:15. Ski until the closing bell and get home in time for dinner. I would argue that if 3 hrs isn't a reasonable day trip for a powder day, then you're probably not a dedicated skier to begin with, and finding a metro area with easy access to powder isn't likely a priority.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I have little experience with the 3 hour commute because here it's either 1-2 local or 5 to Mammoth. I still strongly suspect that the best powder days are more than 3 (and sometimes a lot more) from Boston though.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

Once those kids are old enough, pack them in the car for a week in Utah and the value for dollar will blow away anything you could have done living in the Northeast.

We will be packing them in the car for sure, though I think Mammoth/June will absorb 90% of our driving trips. Anything longer than that, and uxorial dynamics begin to come into play, to put it politely.

Everything changes, IMO, when you have a home base.

You had to put in some effort to arrange that in the Northeast. I'm not sure it would be that much more difficult at Mammoth.

It was actually very easy for me in VT based on a longstanding personal relationship. We have no such relationships out here with anyone who not only skies regularly but who would also put up with our kids. Also, there's much less housing stock in Mammoth/June than there is in VT, if market pricing is any indication. It's 50-100% more expensive for a share house here than it is in VT, from what I've seen.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

I have little experience with the 3 hour commute because here it's either 1-2 local or 5 to Mammoth. I still strongly suspect that the best powder days are more than 3 (and sometimes a lot more) from Boston though.

Untrue. If you live on the South Shore, then perhaps true b/c you need to get all the way through/around the metro area. If you live on the North Shore or just to the NW of the city, K-Mart, SB, MRG and Bolton/Stowe are within a 3:00-3:15 drive. Again, the majority of good powder days don't feature snow on the roads. White River Junction, which is half way up VT and only an hour from the best mtns on the Spine, gets only 72" per year.

Now occasionally, you will have those days where it's snowing all the way down to Boston. On those days, it's probably not worth making the effort.

 

[ShiftyRider]

you can go there and ski good steeps

Not sure that phrase has much meaning to folks who'd rather do flat closely-spaced forests (maybe the powder lasts in there cuz the others prefer going faster than a golf cart LOL).

 

[Mike Bernstein]

you can go there and ski good steeps

Not sure that phrase has much meaning to folks who'd rather do flat closely-spaced forests (maybe the powder lasts in there cuz the others prefer going faster than a golf cart LOL).

As Marc_C said, it's a good thing there people in here who have the perspective from both coasts needed to make these sorts of statements. :roll: :roll:

Obviously, there's nothing challenging about East coast slackcountry. To wit:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...convential-Terrain-Winter-Carnival-in-Vermont

 

[Admin]

I have little experience with the 3 hour commute because here it's either 1-2 local or 5 to Mammoth. I still strongly suspect that the best powder days are more than 3 (and sometimes a lot more) from Boston though.

Speaking from when I lived in Swampscott, which requires 15 minutes just to get through Lynn so it's comparable to driving from downtown Bean Town, Stowe, Sugarbush, Mad River Glen, Killington/Pico, Cannon, etc. are all 3 hours or less. Jay Peak is 3:15, Smuggs around 3:30. Your suspicions, therefore, are inaccurate.

 

[socal]

I have little experience with the 3 hour commute because here it's either 1-2 local or 5 to Mammoth. I still strongly suspect that the best powder days are more than 3 (and sometimes a lot more) from Boston though.

Speaking from when I lived in Swampscott, which requires 15 minutes just to get through Lynn so it's comparable to driving from downtown Bean Town, Stowe, Sugarbush, Mad River Glen, Killington/Pico, Cannon, etc. are all 3 hours or less. Jay Peak is 3:15, Smuggs around 3:30. Your suspicions, therefore, are inaccurate.

Is Smuggs really further from the Boston area than Jay? BTW, Google maps says it's 229 miles to Jay, VT from Boston. Gotta think the drive to Mammoth from LA which is about 300 miles has to be pretty close to that time wise given that you can easily do 75-85 the whole way.

 

[Admin]

Is Smuggs really further from the Boston area than Jay?

Yes, because the road through Smugglers' Notch (VT-108 through the geographic feature, not the ski area) is closed in winter. This forces you to circumnavigate Mt. Mansfield to get there from the southeast.

BTW, Google maps says it's 229 miles to Jay, VT from Boston. Gotta think the drive to Mammoth from LA which is about 300 miles has to be pretty close to that time wise given that you can easily do 75-85 the whole way.

You can haul tail to Jay from Boston as well. It's a straight shot up I-93 to I-91 in St. Johnsbury. Save for a ~6 miles through Franconia Notch (good two-lane road posted at 60 mph, IIRC), it's interstate driving for all but the last 26 miles from Orleans, Vt. And honestly, once you get north of Franconia Notch it's no-man's land. The only thing dictating your speed is your willingness to accept the distinct possibility of a collision with a deer or, God forbid, a moose.

I was living in Swampscott when I started patrolling at Jay, and I'd go up most weekends so this drive I still know like the back of my hand.

 

[ShiftyRider]

there's nothing challenging about East coast slackcountry.

What lift did they ride?

I wouldn't rather ski Vermont cuz it sucks. The challenge is definitely there. On much flatter less fun slopes. Cuz the snow is firm.

I used to ski there. We never worried about packing sunglasses or sunscreen, nobody needed that. For the next several days our hips would be bruised from losing our edges on solid ice. Around here, I've never even bothered to sharpen an edge. I still crash all the time, just charging too hard and stuff. It's nice to crash on soft snow.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

there's nothing challenging about East coast slackcountry.

What lift did they ride?

They rode the gondola at Stowe.

Next question.

I wouldn't rather ski Vermont cuz it sucks. The challenge is definitely there. On much flatter less fun slopes. Cuz the snow is firm.

I used to ski there. We never worried about packing sunglasses or sunscreen, nobody needed that. For the next several days our hips would be bruised from losing our edges on solid ice. Around here, I've never even bothered to sharpen an edge. I still crash all the time, just charging too hard and stuff. It's nice to crash on soft snow.

Sounds like the problem is you, not New England. Let's see, you need ideal conditions to charge, you don't know where the goods are in New England and don't have a good sense for route finding once you're there unless things are wide open. The terrain and snow are there for those willing to look. You chose otherwise.

 

[ShiftyRider]

LOL I've ridden the gondola at Stowe. At the time it didn't look anything like that -- way smaller and I think red even on the inside. I posted the best photo (by far) in this thread and yer telling me I don't know where to go???

 

[rfarren]

I would argue that if 3 hrs isn't a reasonable day trip for a powder day, then you're probably not a dedicated skier to begin with, and finding a metro area with easy access to powder isn't likely a priority.

Bingo. I drove 3 hours the other day to hit Hickory because it was untracked.

Once those kids are old enough, pack them in the car for a week in Utah and the value for dollar will blow away anything you could have done living in the Northeast.

:shock: 12 hours in a car with kids!!!

 

[rfarren]

LOL I've ridden the gondola at Stowe. At the time it didn't look anything like that -- way smaller and I think red even on the inside. I posted the best photo (by far) in this thread and yer telling me I don't know where to go???

Sorry to say this, but, you're wrong...Or at least, you don't know what you're talking about. You haven't showed anything in your comments that show any knowledge of the terrain in the NE. That is lift accessed slack country.

I wouldn't rather ski Vermont cuz it sucks. The challenge is definitely there. On much flatter less fun slopes. Cuz the snow is firm.

I promise you that right now the snow is softer in VT than SoCal. I would even say it's in better shape than Mammoth right now.

I used to ski there. We never worried about packing sunglasses or sunscreen, nobody needed that. For the next several days our hips would be bruised from losing our edges on solid ice. Around here, I've never even bothered to sharpen an edge. I still crash all the time, just charging too hard and stuff. It's nice to crash on soft snow.

You went once....

 

[ShiftyRider]

I promise you that right now the snow is softer in VT than SoCal. I would even say it's in better shape than Mammoth right now.

I saw you posted a TR, stoked! I've been saying Baldy's been funner than Mammoth lately. It'd be awesome if I could ski them both tomorrow LOL.

The rest, I dunno man. If you're like most folks, it'd be a pleasure to ski with you!

 

[Tony Crocker]

If gpetrics' report (amazing, he should go to La Grave with those skills) was accessed from the Stowe gondola I'm pretty sure it involved a nontrivial hike above the gondola to the peak of Mansfield. Possibly another hike out on the other end. I always give props to this kind of report, but the reality is that 99.99% of us peons are not capable of this kind of adventure, be it East, West or anywhere.

:shock: 12 hours in a car with kids!!!

Yes, your own 4WD family vehicle with an entertainment system if you need that. Is that really more difficult than schlepping kids through airports, cramped flights and rental cars these days?

I've been saying Baldy's been funner than Mammoth lately.

I hope that's a . Otherwise he has taken leave of his senses. If Garry Klassen gave up on Baldy nearly 3 weeks ago, trust me it has to be pretty awful by now.