Mountain High: Saving $ or Drought Survival Mode?

[Admin]

If gpetrics' report (amazing, he should go to La Grave with those skills) was accessed from the Stowe gondola I'm pretty sure it involved a nontrivial hike above the gondola to the peak of Mansfield.

Not likely, given that the second pic shows them heading out at approximately the same elevation as the summit of Spruce Peak. This is lower than the Cliff House at the top of the gondi. And FWIW, the hike up to the top of the Chin from the Cliff House is fairly trivial. I last went up there in 2004, although the pictures are long since gone here's the TR:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5643

They were descending one of the cliffy lines into the Notch, which also discounts:

Possibly another hike out on the other end.

Vt-108 is an unplowed downhill glide back to the ski area, so nope, no hike out.

 

[ShiftyRider]

I hope that's a .

I ski every week. Don't you have a pass? I'll see ya Saturday and Sunday, why the heck not?

 

[rfarren]

:shock: 12 hours in a car with kids!!!

Yes, your own family vehicle with an entertainment system if you need that. Is that really more difficult than schlepping kids through airports, cramped flights and rental cars these days?

Personally I don't know how people can take big trips with kids. It's downright hard. Nonetheless I believe it would still be easier to fly 5 hours with a couple kids than drive a car 12. I've done my fair share of 12 hour drives in my life, and I want not to do those again.

If gpetrics' report (amazing, he should go to La Grave with those skills) was accessed from the Stowe gondola I'm pretty sure it involved a nontrivial hike above the gondola to the peak of Mansfield. Possibly another hike out on the other end. I always give props to this kind of report, but the reality is that 99.99% of us peons are not capable of this kind of adventure, be it East, West or anywhere.

The point is that there is some serious terrain in terms of side country throughout the EC. I do agree that the line he took was definitely not anything to sneeze at.

Because much of the harder side country terrain isn't wide open for the taking you need to have a good nose for it. It can be very tricky to find a nice glade or chute that is hidden well behind a wall of trees. Sometimes these areas are even on the map inbounds and it can be hard to find.

I still think you're undervaluing Whiteface and the Daks as a whole. Whiteface the last ten years has had as many years with 250+ inches of snow as it has had less than 170. Both Gore and Whiteface tend to be above the rain line more often than not. Both mountains sport great terrain and great steeps. Both mountains tend to stay at 80% and up terrain wise from January till late March. Both mountains have great vert and good steeps (although in both categories I would put Whiteface as the superior between the two). I still don't see how Baldy, when it only has chair 3 operating- with a sole 1000ft vert- compares to either of those mountains when they are sitting at 80%+. I would also like to add that I believe Whiteface's reputation as "ice-face" is unfair. I would say most days there include few runs that have been wind scoured to the base and are poor, but most of the runs tend to be in good shape. Knowledge is key with that place.

 

[rfarren]

I hope that's a .

I ski every week. Don't you have a pass? I'll see ya Saturday and Sunday, why the heck not?

Tony don't bother with this one, he's too much of a homer. Clearly he sees through rose colored glasses. Perhaps, those are the same glasses that he complained he couldn't use at Stowe. Maybe that's why he thought it sucked.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I ski every week. Don't you have a pass?

Yes, an MVP at Mammoth.

Nonetheless I believe it would still be easier to fly 5 hours with a couple kids than drive a car 12.

Richard and his family did several week+ drives from L.A. even farther than Utah: Sun Valley, Vail, Aspen. In January 1990 Richard and I drove 16 hours to Steamboat through the night. His 10 and 9 year old daughters and 5 year old Adam slept 9 hours in the van and were well rested and ready to go when we arrived in Steamboat at 6:30AM. Richard and I were a little tired that first day, but the trip lasted through 3 days in Steamboat and 6 at Vail and worked just fine overall.

No question it depends upon the particular kid(s). Adam nearly always slept in the car. Andrew was and still is somewhat of a night owl, so needed more attention/distractions in the car.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

LOL I've ridden the gondola at Stowe. At the time it didn't look anything like that -- way smaller and I think red even on the inside. I posted the best photo (by far) in this thread and yer telling me I don't know where to go???

If you're bitching about getting a booboo on your hip from ice in the New England, and you couldn't tell where that TR took place then, by definition, you don't know where to go.

Joke's on you.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

If gpetrics' report (amazing, he should go to La Grave with those skills) was accessed from the Stowe gondola I'm pretty sure it involved a nontrivial hike above the gondola to the peak of Mansfield. Possibly another hike out on the other end. I always give props to this kind of report, but the reality is that 99.99% of us peons are not capable of this kind of adventure, be it East, West or anywhere.

As rfarren said, it's really not all that. I'm a relatively out of shape flatlander, and for me it's just a 20-30 minute hike up to the Chin from the gondi and then a gravity traverse(with occasional interesting turns and bushwacking) from there down into Hellbrook and environs. For someone like Greg, it's probably just a 15-20 minute hike. The real key is knowing where to go once you're out there. The traverse back is flat, but you can keep some momentum for most of the way down Vt-108.

 

[ShiftyRider]

LOL...

I bet Walter Mitty thought he skied with ropes too.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

LOL...

I bet Walter Mitty thought he skied with ropes too.

Keep on drinking your Kool-Aid.

Need more ice for your sore hips?

 

[rfarren]

Keep on drinking your Kool-Aid.

Need more ice for your sore hips?

:lol:
This guys is a complete joke.

 

[ShiftyRider]

LOL I've ridden the gondola at Stowe. At the time it didn't look anything like that -- way smaller and I think red even on the inside. I posted the best photo (by far) in this thread and yer telling me I don't know where to go???

Sorry to say this, but, you're wrong...Or at least, you don't know what you're talking about.

LOL, how embarrassing...

 

[Patrick]

LOL, how embarrassing...

At least you can laugh about it. I would definitely be embarrassed being at your place.

 

[ShiftyRider]

That's the Stowe gondola I rode, maybe you're as confused as rfarren.

 

[Patrick]

That's the Stowe gondola I rode, maybe you're as confused as rfarren.

I rode that gondola and the new one. There was also a single when I was there, there is no argument there. I wasn't talking about your gondola comment., but your general attitude.

 

[J.Spin]

LOL I've ridden the gondola at Stowe. At the time it didn't look anything like that -- way smaller and I think red even on the inside.

I just checked in on this thread yesterday, but I'm not sure why nobody has clarified the Stowe Gondola issue yet; Stowe replaced their earlier Gondola, the one Shifty has presumably ridden, about 20 years ago (maybe early 90s?) with a substantially larger 8-passenger one.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

LOL I've ridden the gondola at Stowe. At the time it didn't look anything like that -- way smaller and I think red even on the inside.

I just checked in on this thread yesterday, but I'm not sure why nobody has clarified the Stowe Gondola issue yet; Stowe replaced their earlier Gondola, the one Shifty has presumably ridden, about 20 years ago (maybe early 90s?) with a substantially larger 8-passenger one.

Correct. I guess I was confused. I thought Shifty was doubting that the terrain in question was accessed by the gondola. Maybe he was just confused b/c the pics from the TR I linked to weren't consistent with his memory of what the gondola looked like, so he doubted the veracity of my claim? IDK.

 

[rfarren]

That's the Stowe gondola I rode, maybe you're as confused as rfarren.

No confusion here... Everything is pretty clear. You have no idea what you're talking about, what's there to be confused by?

 

[Tony Crocker]

I am puzzled by ShiftyRider's posts. I did not find the Stowe gondola lift served trails particularly challenging. ShiftyRider's poster notes the 7,000 foot length and 2,100 vertical. The lower parts of Perry Merrill and Gondolier were flat enough to get sticky on a sunny March 15. I presume ShifyRider is comparing that to his picture looking down the face of Mt. Waterman to the Angeles Crest Hwy.

But even within lift service, Stowe has much more challenging terrain off Forerunner. Goat and Starr are on balance tougher than the face of Waterman as they are longer and narrower and the top steep sections have similar pitch to Waterman. And ShiftyRider made a sweeping generalization about slackcountry that was well refuted by gpetric's report. After reading admin's correction, I would say that gpetric's line was was at least as lift accessible as Avalanche at Waterman and perhaps only a bit more out of the way than Eric's at Baldy.

 

[ShiftyRider]

Good stuff.

There's no need to read anything into what I write other than the words you can see. I've ridden the gondola at Stowe. It means what it says. rfarren said I was wrong, like he would know LOL.

Before that, I said the [Vermont] challenge is definitely there. But most challenging doesn't necessarily mean the most fun, most preferable. Yikes, I could leave my left ski at the bottom of the hill, then try doing a lap I guess.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

I am puzzled by ShiftyRider's posts. I did not find the Stowe gondola lift served trails particularly challenging. ShiftyRider's poster notes the 7,000 foot length and 2,100 vertical. The lower parts of Perry Merrill and Gondolier were flat enough to get sticky on a sunny March 15. I presume ShifyRider is comparing that to his picture looking down the face of Mt. Waterman to the Angeles Crest Hwy.

I thought his picture was taken from above the bottom of ch 1 at Baldy, WAY over on lookers' right above that little cliff area. On the far side of the canyon below, I can see the exit of Eric's with that little road/traverse that continues on up the far wall of that canyon. Did I just completely miss that?

But even within lift service, Stowe has much more challenging terrain off Forerunner. Goat and Starr are on balance tougher than the face of Waterman as they are longer and narrower and the top steep sections have similar pitch to Waterman. And ShiftyRider made a sweeping generalization about slackcountry that was well refuted by gpetric's report. After reading admin's correction, I would say that gpetric's line was was at least as lift accessible as Avalanche at Waterman and perhaps only a bit more out of the way than Eric's at Baldy.

No doubt that most of the close-in terrain off the gondi is pretty tame, with a few hair-raising exceptions like Waterfall and the Hazeltine chutes close to Perry Merrill. The biggest challenge at Stowe, IMHO, isn't even the Front four area, though there are certainly some tight steeps there. The hardest stuff generally requires a hike to access the Kitchen Wall (the big cliff area between Fourunner and the Gondi), the Rock Garden and all the stuff off the Chin and especially beyond like Hellbrook and environs. there is also the steeps on the opposite side of Smuggler's Notch off of Spruce Peak that you got a glimpse of across the valley in that TGR thread I linked to. Both those areas, but especially the Hellbrook side, require considerably more effort, IMO, than Eric's, which can easily be accessed via Turkey Shoot with a quick and easy walk back to Ch 1 at the bottom. I can't speak to the Avalanche comp at Waterman, though I know it requires some traversing/slogging to get there. It's hard to compare that one b/c of the mandatory car ride back.